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Google Update Bourbon Part 3

     
8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]



My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

1:39 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The challenge for Google is how to downrank or filter scraper pages without whacking legitimate pages.

I wish people would spend less time questioning Google's motives and more time questioning Google's methods.

Ditto that!

EFV,

Did your G traffic ever recovered after the 2 last carnage rounds?

Do you find your domain name is listed and linked from many scrapers?

1:45 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There's a lot of talk about 'Trust Rank.'

Seeing how this update imposes severe penalties on legitimate sites, I would like to know if there is, in practice, something that might be referred to as 'Mistrust Rank.'

It is possible that the algo has applied negative 'Mistrust Rank' prior to applying the positive 'Trust Rank?'

In other words, are the sites that have been catapulted into the Purgatory have a snowball's chance in he** to rank again once Bourbon is over?

1:46 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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<off-topic>

Well what can I say Google and Yahoo seem intent on squeezing every conceivable penny they can out of webmasters.

The sole purpose of a publicly held corporation is to increase share holder vaule. In fact they are legally obligated to do so. It would be a dis-service to their share holders to not make money at every opportunity... Making money is why they exist.

</off-topic>

Justin

1:49 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Did your G traffic ever recovered after the 2 last carnage rounds?

Yes, my rankings and referrals jumped back to pre-March 23 levels a week ago. Some of my rankings are actually better than they were before the plunge. (I'll admit that I couldn't help thinking "Oh, no!" when GoogleGuy said more changes are in store.)

Do you find your domain name is listed and linked from many scrapers?

Yes, and until a week ago some of the scrapers ranked higher for my site's name than I did.

2:13 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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<< <off-topic> sole purpose of a publicly held corporation is to increase share holder vaule >>

Last I heard, Larry and Sergey still control the majority of the voting shares..... don't blame the pension funds!

2:15 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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EFV,

<<my rankings and referrals jumped back to pre-March 23 levels a week ago>>

and your URL only p....ages?

2:25 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yes, my rankings and referrals jumped back to pre-March 23 levels a week ago.

That's good news!

There might be some light at the end of the tunnel after all. I just hope it was an auto algo adjustment and not hand edited by someone from G reading these threads.

Can't report the same but Iím still hopeful they'll fix it soon.

P.S.
Is your traffic back to normal levels you use to seeing since lets say Sep 2004 to around Feb 2005? you know the normal viewers daily count before the wiled up down fluctuations begun.

2:36 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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let me repeat this again:

Google's stock is through the roof and they're making a killing as it is, they don't need to ban your site or my site to make more money. They're too young to pull those tricks and they don't need to. If their stock starts crashing and they're under pressure to make the expected revenue, then I guess one can speculate.

2:37 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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> Yes, my rankings and referrals jumped back to pre-March 23 levels a week ago.

do you think it was a manual intervention?

2:45 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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What I have done today:

1) stop my ad-words
2) stop my ad-sense
3) sell out my GG stock

I just want to tell google: We are in the same boat. We are not spamers. We are not scrapers. It's time for us to fight back!

2:59 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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<edit>

I just went way off topic... Will post to the supporters forum.

</edit>

Justin

3:07 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There might be some light at the end of the tunnel after all. I just hope it was an auto algo adjustment and not hand edited by someone from G reading these threads.

I doubt if it's even possible for Google personnel to intercede on a case-by-case basis, except to apply or remove penalties (which weren't an issue in my case because rankings weren't down uniformly or universally). Besides, I'm just another small fish in another huge pond. And--just as important--the Bourbon update brought other changes to the SERPs that I watch; for example, massive template-based travel "review" and directory sites, which got a big boost in my sector after March 23, seem to have lost their dominance in the latest update.

Is your traffic back to normal levels you use to seeing since lets say Sep 2004 to around Feb 2005? you know the normal viewers daily count before the wiled up down fluctuations begun.

My traffic seems to be where it was after Allegra in February, when I got at least a 30% boost after having experienced no significant changes at all in Florida and earlier updates.

FWIW, I was talking to a WW member earlier in the week whose content site has been through a similar plunge and resurrection cycle (followed by another plunge). Both of us feel like we're riding surfboards on a sine wave. :-)

3:09 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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walkman,

Google's stock is through the roof and they're making a killing as it is, they don't need to ban your site or my site to make more money. They're too young to pull those tricks and they don't need to. If their stock starts crashing and they're under pressure to make the expected revenue, then I guess one can speculate.

It is hard to believe that google's current market value is over $46 billion, trading at almost $300 per share. However, with a P/E ratio of 115 to 1 would indicate a strong hint of irrational exuberance.

Even so, to all those who may think Bourbon has anything to do with maximizing revenue...IMHO this is not the case. As an avid searcher I can attest that Google, Yahoo and MSN serps have been terrible for awhile. PPC and the such has spawned so much spam that I have taken to using gigablast.

It is not a matter of maximizing revenue, but rather an attempt to stop the bleeding of market share (ie; users).

3:15 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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MetricsGuru, do bring questions to New Orleans. I'm glad that several engineers will be there to talk, answer questions, and get feedback.

I think Brett is at SES-London, so I'm not sure how to figure out how to make a GoogleGuy-only thread. I think we'll get it going though.

I checked, and there is still new data to be used at several data centers. That's why I recommended that people take into account that rankings will still be changing.

3:19 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The purpose of my post JD was to point out that Bourbon is still going strong. This afternoon it fully hit my areas or may be a new twist. Friday I stated it wasnít finished and GG verified that today. You canít really plan around something until the dust has settled.

I think to most people it pretty well goes without saying that corporations are in to make money and governments tax. But there is always a point when people say itís to much of something. In other words they feel squeezed.

3:28 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Rankings will still be changing, OK, but there appears to have been significant "collateral damage" so far, Bourbon having sent my absolutely adorable website to SERP #15, better known as the red-light district.

It appears that penalties have been applied in the first wave of the algo.

Is there any hope at all that perhaps some positive factors haven't yet been applied, which might restore my first place ranking?

All the listings in the SERPs in my areas have lost a few feathers in the backlink update, I was an exception in gaining from 71 to 83 - but that's because people in my niche just love my website. Could this be cause for punishment?

3:38 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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googleguy....

Just go down to the bottom of the page and click "start a new topic".

Even though some here are really upset with this bourbon thing...I am glad ya'll seem to be taking the lead in cleaning up the serps. Abeit in the middle of this "update" it looks even worse. I guess instead of the "calm before the storm"...this is the storm before the calm (I hope).

3:41 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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outland88

I understand. I have one site that is nearly a year old, and yet to show in the G SERP's for more than brief periods... Sat. I was there and had traffic for six hours =) It is not causing me to go under, but I can see how if I was solidly founded in G SERPs and then disappeared, it could cause a great deal of loss.

My main thought was realizing that it is not personal, but rather business, keeps me reasonable, and then I can rationally look for a solution.

Sometimes I think we forget that and make emotional decisions rather than fundamentally good decisions.

I am very sorry if the 'out of business' line of your post is even remotely true.

Justin

3:49 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"Sometimes I think we forget that and make emotional decisions rather than fundamentally good decisions."

And yet at the risk of dragging this further off the subject:

Virtually all decisions are based on emotions regardless of logic.

3:50 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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In my domain, results taken straight from "allinanchor" are a million times better than the straight search queries.

My domain isn't very spammy with commercial sites, the main pollution is from directory and scraper pages, but neither ranked particularly high pre-Bourbon. It's not a huge problem.

My question goes to webmasters familiar with more competitive areas:

How do the "allinanchor" results fare, compared to the straight search queries?

4:42 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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hellebourine - you're right, they're better than the REAL results.

Much better.

5:57 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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GoogleGuy

There has been several interpretations to this line of yours:

- Then there will still be some minor changes after that as well.

I myself wish to ask whether that means that the serps shall be "everchanging" or what I call "The Rotating Algos" ;-) as in the case after allegra update.

Would you be kind to elaborate more?

Thanks

[edited by: reseller at 6:00 am (utc) on June 2, 2005]

5:59 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Just go down to the bottom of the page and click "start a new topic".

I did, but it's pretty intricate to set up a "only one person can post" thread and Brett is out of town. Here's the last one that we did, for example:
[webmasterworld.com...]

6:05 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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GoogleGuy

Hers is your "only one person can post" thread. Pls go ahead

[webmasterworld.com...]

6:18 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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reseller, currently, a few data centers have some different data that should be everywhere in a few days. I'll keep people posted on the status of things, and collect feedback closer to the end after things are settling down more. I'd expect that things will be back to their normal level of everflux by New Orleans. But we do have incremental indexing after all, so it's normal to expect a certain amount of change to the index every day or so (aka everflux).

In fact, everflux is a pretty good analogy. If you go back to summer 2003, update Fritz was the beginning of the transition from a monthly update to an incremental index. It caused a lot of comments, because plenty of people were happy with an index that only changed once a month. A lot of the thickness in my hide started with Fritz during summer two years ago. :) Summer in the northern hemisphere is often a good time for a search engines to work on revamping different parts of our system and improving our quality; typically search engine traffic is lower in the summer due to seasonality. So the summer is a good time to think about things like bringing in new signals of quality and ways to rank pages, plus doing things like reorganizing our webmaster pages, etc. etc.

6:26 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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GoogleGuy

Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated

>In fact, everflux is a pretty good analogy.<

Ok. So Iīm gonna call it in future "everflux" instead of "everchanging" ;-)

6:40 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"Bourbon having sent my absolutely adorable website to SERP #15, better known as the red-light district."

Heh? You're worried about #15? I'd be THRILLED to get BACK to #15 where we were before this update dumped us to #93!

6:44 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Increased dependence on signals of quality would be great, and the apparent major changes many of us have been hoping for for at least a year coming this summer could be terrific, if only as a break from the unrelentingly mediocre quality of the recent past.

The current serps have some just plain terrible conceptual problems (ranking straight redirects is never good for example), so it will be interesting to see if coming changes do remove this garbage.

Then perhaps with the longer hours of sunlight this summer, the folks at the 'plex will be able to find the authority knob at last....

==
"a few data centers have some different data that should be everywhere in a few days"

I sure hope these a new somewhere and not any on mcdar, because none of those could be called better than poor.

6:52 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The storm is far from over.

I just hope the second half of this storm gets me out of the sandbox.

me too, but I've almost lost my hope :(

7:22 am on June 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I am seeing a signifigant differnce in rankings for this DC:

[64.233.187.104...]

When compared to most ofthe others it looks as if it has less backlinks.

Also it seems to have fewer & different directories in the top.

This 789 message thread spans 27 pages: 789