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Google Update Bourbon Part 3

     
8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Continued From:

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My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

12:52 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Well, if they are done, they are for sure going to have to do another update. The search results are terrible in some places. Not that it's much worse than previous results I saw about a month ago! But still!
12:53 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Google posted that PageRank was taken offline because those servers were pressed into use in computing the update.

Not sure if the above is accurate or not. But GoogleGuy posted that PageRank disappeared due to a change-out in hardware.

12:57 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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First, sorry to anyone who thinks the business model explanation is not relevant to this discussion (more relevant than G's SERPs these days).

As for this update being over or not over, in the same search - 4 words which appear in the page title of a key page - I've done over and over, my site now ranks 96. It was 86 last night.

For the EXACT page title, of which this page is EXACTLY WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT TO FIND doing such a search, I rank #75. In my mind, those are not good results. This is a search for which my site ranks #1 on both Yahoo and MSN.

What is the possibility that Google will continue rotating algos or we will be in constant update mode?

Regardless, I have found that the tinkering was first an annoyance and now has grown into a serious problem that doesn't seem to be anywhere nearer a positive resolution than 12 days ago.

1:03 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Friends!

You have to choose between two possible scenarios:

- Bourbon update isn't over yet after 12 days of its start.

- Bourbon update is completed. And all 3 of you are describing the symptoms of "The rotating algos"

Your choice!

Same thing, me thinks...

I mean rotating algos or DMs isnít normal, none update, Google behavior is it?

1:05 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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As for this update being over or not over, in the same search - 4 words which appear in the page title of a key page - I've done over and over, my site now ranks 96. It was 86 last night.

Well friend,

BEFORE the update one of my sites was rotating between pos #1, #2, and #3 on a weekly basis. Just a thought.

1:09 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yes, but Mysite goes from # 3 to page 10 several times a day for very expensive money terms...

This is large movement - for me anyway!

As AnonyMouse eloquently agreed:

>"up and down like a *****'s drawers" might be more apt!<

1:13 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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12 days and more than 1500 posts in this thread...

Does anyone besides me believe this is getting a little old and maybe we should all just hit the "ignore" button on Google?

1:15 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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etraffic104

>Well friend,

BEFORE the update one of my sites was rotating between pos #1, #2, and #3 on a weekly basis. Just a thought.<

Exactly. It all started with allegra 3rd Feb 2005 and I wrote several posts about the rotating algos theory since then.

1:16 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How about the "go away" button?
1:27 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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nzmatt, just like the "any key", it does not exist :)
1:34 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How about the "belly" button? -- OK time for bed...
1:50 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I don't know about you guys but i have a huge amount of bots of my forums right at this very moment.
Perhaps this update is taking a new turn?

Anyone else seeing a huge amount of bot activity on their sites?


Well this is something else that's horrifying. I just checked my "latest visitors" under cPanel (under stats) which is supposed to show the last 300 visitors, and I don't see a SINGLE ENTRY for the Googlebot! Not only that, the page has been huge the past few days, but there's only a few items on it now! This also shows how much G has SCREWED ME! Barely enough visitors now to even register!

Now on another note, when I've been checking it that area past week, I keep seeing this entry for <snip> and "that page" keeps trying to access an image I have on one of my pages! The exact same thing also happens at a similar URL of <snip>, unlike the URL above it IS accessible to non-members. I look on the page, and there is NO REFERENCES to my biz, the image, nothing. Both of these URL's are returning a code of 403 (prohibited on my server)! That should not have been happening because the IP's of those sites were NOT on my IP Deny list! I did however ADD THEM to my IP deny list. Does anyone know anything about those "suspicious sites" and why they'd be trying to access that image at my site?

Edit to update that now I CAN access that URL for some reason!

[edited by: engine at 2:07 pm (utc) on May 31, 2005]
[edit reason] TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

1:55 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Clint

I suggest that you remove the url from your post. Its against the TOS of these forums. Too specific.

Dayo_UK

2:01 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Clint

I would imagine it is a case of hotlinking - it is relatively common - esp in a forum - as a user may of wanted to add an image to the post.

Dayo

2:03 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Well this is something else that's horrifying. I just checked my "latest visitors" under cPanel (under stats) which is supposed to show the last 300 visitors, and I don't see a SINGLE ENTRY for the Googlebot! Not only that, the page has been huge the past few days, but there's only a few items on it now! This also shows how much G has SCREWED ME! Barely enough visitors now to even register!

Clint, I would suggest you check who is linking to you. It might be the reason. Googlebot is fine on my site, doing it's normal activity. It's reason enough for you to get concerned...

2:10 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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That's settles it for me, at least. MY fat lady has sung.

How can a #1 site fall so low, and so abruptly? It's not a technical glitch, otherwise I wouldn't still be first in Yahoo, and I would never have been #1 in Google to begin with.

The datacenters show two sets of ever so slightly different results for my company name. But they have been stable for the past 3 days now.

It's like the white pages aren't even in alphabetical order anymore. No one can find my site. Traffic has gone from 1600 uniques and 25K page views (the visitors stayed a long time) to a mere trickle. The site was very appreciated by the visitors. I received 2-3 emails every day, no exaggeration, thanking me for the "great free widget plans." My niche is a small one, but I do have more incoming links than my "competition." I have, modesty be buggered, no competion.

To be buried in the red light district of the SERPs is an insult. It's incomprehensible. The number one spot is hogged by an abominable link & affiliate page with a huge ebay listings ad unit, links to Fastclick (that's right, Fastclick!), and Amazon links everywhere. Zero content whatsoever. That's what is floating on top.

I've come here for answers. No one has a clue of what's going on. This is how absurd the SERPs are. No one can make heads or tails of them.

I've become bipolar - one minute I have faith that Google knows what it's doing and will fix it, the next I fear that maybe they are oblivious to some very good sites that be been severely, and unfairly penalized.

2:14 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yes, Google has become a capricious mistress.

Maybe this is what it takes to stay ahead of the spam jam...

2:15 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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EG. For those with the problem (hopefully coming out of) eg EFV then DCs beginning - 216.239.57.* and 216.239.53.* have backlinks and pr consolidated on both the non-www and the www.

I don't know if the update is still going on, but index maintenance certainly is. As recently as May 26, Google.com was still showing 1,130 duplicate www versions of my pages; that number hadn't changed in nearly two weeks. In the last couple of days, the number has dropped significantly (it's currently at 391 after bouncing around a bit). This is the first time the number of spurious www listings has been below 1,100 since I learned about the "canonical problem" back in late March.

If you've been hit by the "www vs. non-www duplicate content" issue, searches on site:example.com and site:www.example.com may offer a glimmer of hope (over time, if not immediately).

2:23 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Ok, regarding the URL in my post, I see someone has removed it, sorry. Now the question is, why can't we put URL's in our posts?! How are we supposed to let anyone know about a certain URL? I've seen numerous other URL's in posts, even on some of the pages on this thread.

Dayo, (remember) I checked the HTML code of the pages for any references to my site, me, biz, domain, etc., and image and found nothing. That's what's got me puzzled. :o

----------
From etraffic104:
Clint, I would suggest you check who is linking to you. It might be the reason. Googlebot is fine on my site, doing it's normal activity. It's reason enough for you to get concerned...
---------
Could you please elab on that? ;) What am I to look for exactly? There are a LOT of sites linking to me. Some with my knowledge in link exchanges, but most (I'm recently finding out) WITHOUT my knowledge.
Thanks.

2:29 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I see some of you referencing the www prefix issue. Can anyone please explain why this is significant or is it significant? My sites are automatically accessible with or without the www prefix (by default host design and no intervention by me). If you enter www.mydomain.com in the address bar and go to the site, that's what you see in the bar. The same when entering mydomain.com, it then shows in the address bar when at the site. So, is there something I should do about that? I'm not sure how this is currently handled in my case, or what it's technically called "redirect wise" if any. So if there is something I should do to help with this G cr@p that's going on, please tell me what.
Thanks.
2:35 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Follow-up to my post #350 above: when I do the site:mydomain.com bit I show more results at G for the NON www version (site:mydomain.com) than that of site:www.mydomain.com, but, the hits in the results of the non www search show the www version and NON www versions of the URL's! Does this signify anything specific?
Thanks.
2:40 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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From etraffic104:
Clint, I would suggest you check who is linking to you. It might be the reason. Googlebot is fine on my site, doing it's normal activity. It's reason enough for you to get concerned...
---------
Could you please elab on that? ;) What am I to look for exactly? There are a LOT of sites linking to me. Some with my knowledge in link exchanges, but most (I'm recently finding out) WITHOUT my knowledge.
Thanks.

Hi Clint.

All I meant was that sometimes G hates it when spammy sites link to your site. Try and avoid all links whether outgoing or incomming that comes from sites that G considers spam or bad content. If a site does not have good content, then avoid them linking to you. Sometimes it can't be helped when they do link to you, but where you can, you need to try and avoid it at all costs. It's just a theory, but I seem to have it working for me.

2:42 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Since the PR is working again, I checked and my site is the same as it was Friday the 20th (before this BS started). I also checked the PR of the sites appearing on the first THREE pages at G for a search query of where I was 1st on the 1st page (up until Saturday the 21st that is), and NONE OF THEM have a PR higher than mine, most are ZERO or 1!
2:43 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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that just seems wrong that you get penalized by people linking to you... I mean morally wrong :)

I wonder about this much mentioned TrustRank thing... let me guess it opens the system up to gaming by humans? great.

2:49 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi Clint.

All I meant was that sometimes G hates it when spammy sites link to your site. Try and avoid all links whether outgoing or incomming that comes from sites that G considers spam or bad content. If a site does not have good content, then avoid them linking to you. Sometimes it can't be helped when they do link to you, but where you can, you need to try and avoid it at all costs. It's just a theory, but I seem to have it working for me.


Thanks. Obviously it's impossible at this juncture to determine what Google considers "spammy sites" or more so, "bad content" since I've been replaced in Google BY THESE "bad sites" and sites with no relevant content! Are you saying that I should contact all those sites that link to me (or some of them) and get them to remove my link(s)? As of right now, this is the only way my biz or products can be found at Google! And that's by these other sites linked to me!

Should I remove my "links" pages? Why would these pages hurt me, when they have catapulted others into top spots?

This is a bad, most confusing and frustrating dilemma in which to find myself.

2:57 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi Clint.

Listen Up. Some practical rules. I'm logging off for today, but before I do, here they are:

1. Email those sites and TRY to very politely ask them to remove your links.
2. First check them in G to see if they are actually bad sites. Have a look at their content, their PR and so on. Also have a look at their source code for any hidden stuff. Basically, "spy" out those sites.
3. Don't remove your links pages, but it might be worth while checking which sites you are linking to as well, just in case. I know this can be a pain.
4. Also have a look at how those sites you are linking to from your website is doing on G.

Cheers for now!

3:07 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I see some of you referencing the www prefix issue. Can anyone please explain why this is significant or is it significant?

Clint, this has been discussed at length in several different threads, including--if I recall correctly--part 1 and/or part 2 of the Bourbon update thread. A Google search will help you find the appropriate threads.

In a nutshell, you need server code that redirects example.com requests to www.example.com or vice versa. Otherwise, if (for example) your site is www.example.com and somebody just links to example.com, Google may index pages within your site twice: once at www.example.com, and again at example.com. This may lead to "duplicate content" problems, and it may also dilute incoming PageRank.

The way to implement this on an Apache server (the most common type of Web server) is with a 301 redirect in your .htaccess file. Examples of such code have been given in other threads; in my own .htacess file, which redirects www requests to non-www URL equivalents, the code is:

Options +FollowSymLinks -Indexes
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{http_HOST} ^www.example\.com
RewriteRule ^(.*) http://example.com/$1 [L,R=301]

WARNING: Back up your .htaccess file and keep a copy in a safe place before trying this. If you need more detailed advice, try the Apache forum here at Webmaster World.

Dayo_UK

3:12 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Clint - to add to EFV - dont forget your domains with duplicate content - make sure they are redirected properly.

As I have mentioned previously - If I was you I would explain my circumstances in the Apache Forum - That is where the experts on this type of thing hang out.

Dayo_UK

3:19 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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To add to my post about disappearing pages.

It is definetely the case that some DCs dont seem to be able to hold pages eg:

I have had a page crawled on the 27th that started appearing on some dcs on the 29th - by the end of the 29th it was on all dcs.

On the 30th it disappeared from some dcs - but then re-appeared later in the day.

Today (31st) it has disappeared from some dcs again. (I expect it will be back later)

By disappeared - I mean Gone (nothing - not even a url listing)

Anyone else seeing this (or am i going crazy (which is possible))

3:21 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Dayo-uk

I see the same and pages losing cashe applied to them after only 7 days or so and going supp

cheers,

BB

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