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Google Update Bourbon Part 3

     
8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

7:18 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"Maybe and I say maybe, the folks at Google have decided that business and semi business sites shouldn't have a free lunch any more at top 10 or top 20 of the serps."

Google:
Yeah, instead let's give these results to spammers.

7:21 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"The redirect is/was through my own domain!"

Doesn't matter. "Hijack" sounds sinister but it just means some other URL displays instead of the correct URL (the one with the content on it).

7:38 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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jgbmarc

>Google:
Yeah, instead let's give these results to spammers.<

Depends on your definition of a spam site.

Pls stay with me for a moment and lets look at the following two cases with open minds ;-)

Lets assume:

- that the top 20 results on a specific serp are all occupied by resource sites which display 2-3 AdSense spots on each and every page of the sites.
In this case Google generates revenues in two ways; Adwords on the serps and AdSense on the top 20 listed sites.

- that the top 20 results on the same specific serp are all occupied by Business sites.
In this case Google generates revenues ONLY in one way; Adwords

Which of the two above cases meet the wishes of Google´s Stockholders most?

Thanks for listening!

7:44 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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i hear ya reseller,

i just find it difficult to believe that Google would ignore what put them on top. ie, the most relevant results

but i understand all the conspiracy theories out there. I just have faith in them keepin it real to what got them on top.

7:52 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Rollo, the combination of 3 AdSense units (flag to apply a scraper filter?), >400 internal links (a hallmark of scrapers), and some keyword rich text might have done me in.
Yes, I'd guess a site brimming with ads, 400 links each, and not much original content wouldn't be the sort of thing Google or users would find relevant. I'd say you should change your original content to garbage ratio dramatically, cut way, way, down on the links per page, and maybe focus on a couple well targeted ads per page only. Sounds like you might have a spam-o-ramma going on there... that'll do anyone in sooner or later.
7:55 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Whoa! Rollo! My site is 100%, artistic, original content. Zero garbage, so my content/garbage ratio is x/0. There were 3 Adsense units because the page was longish. Not excessively long.

I set it up that way for visitor navigation.

You're joking with me, right?

8:00 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Which of the two above cases meet the wishes of Google´s Stockholders most?

Google is already a mature, experienced company with the long term success goals.
They, for sure, do not have the kind of take-the-money-and-run mentality.

Lets assume:

a) Getting $1000 a day for a period of few months until the users realise you don't provide quality they looked for and finally everything dry out

b) Getting $200 a day maintaining quality for indefinite period of time

Which of the two above cases would you choose?

8:07 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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It could be broken.

Why would one of my search still provide a first page result and the rest be pretty much banished anywhere from page 6 to page 30?

Very strange.

Dayo_UK

8:11 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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helleborine

Assume Rollo read your post wrong.

Did you have any luck asking on your hosts tech forum regarding 301 redirects from non-www to www?

8:12 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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activeco

>Lets assume:

a) Getting $1000 a day for a period of few months until the users realise you don't provide quality they looked for and finally everything dry out<

Starting the devil advocate for a moment :-)

Not if the resource sites provide you with the info and links to what you are searching for.
The only difference here is that you reach what you are looking for through pages wich display AdSense spots. I.e you reach your target in two clicks instead of one.

End of devil advocate.

8:14 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I see now very stable DCs...

Anybody else see the same?

Dayo_UK

8:21 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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reseller

Not for my sites :(

Your keyword we discussed the other days looks stable though :)

Ps. Put two O in the first keyword on that page. Might increase the click throughs - unless it is a delibrate typo ;)

[edited by: Dayo_UK at 8:23 pm (utc) on May 30, 2005]

8:22 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"I set it up that way for visitor navigation"

Yet this makes no difference. In order to rank well you must provide what is necessary in google's eyes to rank well. It is just a sad truth that cannot be escaped.

8:29 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Dayo_UK

>Not for my sites :( <

Don´t worry. The rotating algos shall bring them back again ;-)

> Put two O in the first keyword on that page. Might increase the click throughs - unless it is a delibrate typo ;)<

Thanks. I don´t dare to change anything now on the said keywords. Shall do the change just after hearing the fat lady singing this evening :-)

9:04 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yet another change; once again, we're on page three for our branded site name for the "main Google". But if I check other datacenters, or Canada, we're still in # 1 position for that. So, definitely things are still moving.

You know, if we didn't rank for *any* pages at all, I'd say fine, the domain was banned, and that's that.

But I still have at least two pages that we're in # 3 spot for the keyword phrase. Mind you, they're small, not searched often and don't make us anything. But there we are. I think we had as many as 100 top ten results at one point - I never really tracked it that closely.

You want to laugh? There are at least 5 scraper sites that point to our articles, and I've had more traffic from these than Google yesterday.

9:30 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Some slight variation. Top rankings have stabilized in my area. Still won't come up for company name. I guess I'll be sandwiched between the automated content dross and the red light district, until the next update. Maybe I'll find myself looking back to the good old days when I ranked as high as #145...
9:32 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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PR bar is showing again for me.
No changes to any of my PR #'s that I can see... which is fine with me. The only question now, is why is our PR6 ranking down with the PR2's?

[edited by: MikeNoLastName at 9:48 pm (utc) on May 30, 2005]

9:33 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I finally see Pagerank!:D
No update, but just seeing the green line bring me happiness.
10:38 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I see a green bar, but the hover text is "n/a". I think the PR-update is not completed...
10:46 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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searching for yahoo on .com does not show yahoo home page for me, did not check the DCs though.

this hapens only with IE, a search using firefox shows yahoo home page in SERPS at N1.

[edited by: enotalone at 10:53 pm (utc) on May 30, 2005]

10:47 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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helleborine,

Yes, I must have misunderstood... sorry about the spam-o-ramma comment. I got stuck on 400 links per page and couldn't get link farm out of my head. Was that right, per page or was that just 400 internal links?

If it's the former, I'd recommend breaking up the links into a number of smaller, site maps, properly optimized, by major topic and go from there.

What is the % of similar content, abeit original, on your pages? If it's too high, that could hurt as well.

10:49 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yes, they were internal links. But I've already re-done my site two Saturdays ago as a counter-measure to what I believe Bourbon might have been about.

My pages are similar in their text content, because the variable content is graphical in nature, ie, the "free widget plans" are graphics. I'm currently working on adding useless verbiage to 450 pages. It's a hobby, I guess. Some people do crosswords.

11:06 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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And yes, PR is back, and weird, I still have two different backlink numbers depending on the DC - but that hasn't changed in several days.

What could that means in terms of the progress/termination of this update?

11:09 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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To all of you who have spent an agonizing few days I would say "Listen to your Uncle Brett"!

MM

ann

11:15 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Google guy made a couple of posts in the toolbar section. Seems there is no PR update and that it was only turned off to "add infrastructor"

Weekend chosen as it was a holiday...

11:16 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I have been watching a number of data centres all day for a site I have and believe it or not I am constantly getting a revolving 3 different sets of results for that site's page count on each of the Google IP's - seems to change 1,2, then 3 with every refresh. Very strange, can't recall seeing that amount of rock n' roll before.
11:51 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

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No,

Im still seeing the same useless results in the UK.

Unless they are about to change the results to fall in line with data centre 64.233.163.104 where at least they return results in line with the search made, i dont see any hope for google.

Currently, it looks like the results i see they are happy with, its been this way since after midnight on Friday.

What a waste

12:06 am on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Google is already a mature, experienced company with the long term success goals.
They, for sure, do not have the kind of take-the-money-and-run mentality.

You're joking, right? Google went public less than a year ago. They are still in diapers and prone to making many blunders, missteps and miscalculations. From where I sit, these rolling updates, being a pain in the behind, are a symptom of their teenaged mentality. Give them a year or so and they'll likely be just another failed dot-con-glom-er-ate.

Let me explain this one more time, for those who haven't adjusted the antennae on their tin foil hats:

Let's say you sell "world class blue widgets" and you ranked high in the serps prior to bourbon and you also carry adsense to bring in extra revenue from your solid traffic.

Now along comes joe surfer looking for "world class blue widgets" post-bourbon and your site is sitting around #76. He sees a lot of somewhat-related stuff but some very targeted adwords ads on the right.

CLICK, to one of your competitors. Google wins by not having to share the revenue with you, and by not having to adjust smart pricing for the adwrods advertiser.

You get nothing, Hoggle gets it all.

Further, you may not be happy with this arrangement and start paying for some advertising. Now Hoggle is not only happier, but fatter.

Got it? From a business standpoint it's called "maximizing revenue." Problem is, they'll eventually lose all credibility as a search engine. But then, they'll switch the algo again to accomodate that. Don't be so naive to think that this could not be happening, please.

Google is playing with some real heavyweights, notably Yahoo and MSN. In the long run, I think the older guys will eventually trash them into ruin.

As for the Bourbon Dance, yes, we're still dancing and I believe dancing may become a permanent condition. As it is, this is now Day 11. My four word very specific to my site search result has changed. I used to be #1, until bourbon. I've been hanging between 72-76 for the past nine days. Today, just now, #86. A new low! It's actually getting worse, for me, anyhow.

12:10 am on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Helleborine, I just ran into a photography site having the same problem you are. I wonder if one of the problems is Google's inability to parse images (and thus recognize them as unique content). I mean, how does Google know that the image on each of your 400 subpages is a one-of-a-kind artwork? For all it knows that could just be your company logo.

I suspect you're on the right track, trying to make your site look significantly different from a garbage site to an algorithm unable to see its images. Let us know if it works!

12:14 am on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I will report if it works!
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