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Google Update Bourbon Part 3

   
8:35 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]



My whole site has a new cache date of May 25th. Maybe once these other sites around me get recached, I won't hold such an honorable top position. But at least Google has found my pages worthy to sit in the Search again.:) It seems strange to look at the stats and see Google in there, after 6 months of just seeing Yahoo and MSN referrals.

My website has plenty of outbound links, but they are on relevant pages. The problem my site has always had, was a lack of "inbound links." I got tired of searching for people to link to me (with all the spammy sites around) and gave up. So my pages have acquired some links naturally I guess(and I'll bet I still don't have more than 30 inbound links for the whole site) Still have a PR4, which I've had since it disappeared in Nov.

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 8:54 pm (utc) on May 27, 2005]

2:40 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

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sailorjwd,

<<250 pages with 60 left in Google - all penalized severly.>>

Are the missing pages URL only or simply gone in site:*?

2:54 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well Personally I wasn't affected too badly, so this is a pretty much an unbiased view. I searched google several times today like I usually do for a variety of phrases. I was absolutely shocked by the results. Seemed like every site was either a made for adsense/google site, with no useful content at all! I literally had to goto MSN and search,. I found what i was looking for right away at MSN. I sure as heck hope this is not the permanant update, as if it is I will certainly be using MSN much more in the future.

Brian

2:57 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have to believe that something with this update is really messed up bad and not in a way that Google is happy with either.

My reason for saying that is I notice alot of people talking about adsense and how they believe that killed their sites by associating them with scrapers. I also just hear alot of people talking about their adsense income taking a huge huge drop.

I wonder how many of the currently well ranked sites are running adsense, because if those that serve adsense have taken a huge hit, than that would mean that Google it self is taking a huge hit as well. Sure adwords might go up some, but I can't imagine it would offset the loss in adsense revenue to Google and I can't imagine that Google is going to let that go on for very long.

When it all comes down to it though, Googles problems with the overwhelming amount of spammers and scrapers and to a certain degree agressive SEO is not the doing of webmasters, it really is the doing of Google itself when it created Adsense. If it wasn't for Adsense, alot of sites wouldn't exist because they would not reasonably produce a revenue stream. So many sites today exist sole as machine to earn Adsense revenue from. But like I said, it's not the fault of webmaster, it Google own fault.

3:12 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi, I try to be careful with Adsense. I have about 1,000 pages and building, and Adsense on every page, but the small square which only has FOUR listings. Then I put about 8 affiliate listings on each page, no more. My site is just out of the sandbox and I get a FEW Google searches, maybe two or max three a day so far. Site is exactly one year old. All white hat optimization. The new G patent states a favoritism for Amazon links so I do ofen put an Amazon search link on a page, but not always. I do not think my site is being penalized, just moving VERY SLOWLY toward early SERPS. The G. Search today found my page on G SERPS page 28. But HEY, I am in the index. Just got to move forward now...I do not have any low class affiliates. I work really hard many hours every day on the site and I have faith it will keep moving forward. In a way, I do not blame Google for wanting seasoned sites in the early SERPS. Sure it is hard moving forward, but the rewards will be there when our sites reach 4-5 years of age, I think.
3:35 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



For all those people who say that having adsense on a site in any way is affecting SERPS, I don't see this as being feasible. Since Google Makes money when adsense publishers make money, I don't think they'd penalize it. Also, what is this saying to publishers "if you sue our banners, you will be penalize"
3:38 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



But is it possible Google will penalize sites not using AdSense?
3:56 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Google certainly could penalize adsense-enabled sites and here's why:

Suppose a searcher is looking for "blue widget hammers" and that search would pull your site up in the results in one o the top spots.

The searcher would then go to your site and find what he's looking for, maybe not even clicking on any of your adsense ads. But even if he did click on one, google would share that revenue with the site.

Now, if a searcher cannot find you because you are buried in the SERPs, it's ore likely that he would click on one of the well-targeted ads on Google - one which they keep all the revenue.

So, from that standpoint, it makes perfect sense to jumble up their search algo to make less relevant results appear higher. Of course, they lose all credibility as a search engine, just as they would had they opted to have adsense-enabled sites rank higher.

They've put themselves in a box and their algo can't get them out.

I have to say, today's results on my site are so absurd, even taking into account that it's a holiday weekend, but today's earnings are now less than 10% of my average over the past four months. It's hardly even worth displaying the ads anymore.

It's appaling and a disgrace what Google has done with this "update."

3:57 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I forgot to mention that hat is even more insulting and absurd that Google's response to an obvious problem is complete and total silence.

I am through with these fools.

4:07 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



fearlessrick - that's the biggest BS I've ever heard (it really is). Without search results Google is NOTHING. If a user can't get relevant searchs she/he will stop using google period - then Google makes NOTHING.

People are jumping conclusions before they even know what happened....

4:18 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



From my perch...
I see the following:

First, some very good points are being made here about Adsense and what Google may or may not be doing to stem the tide of scrapper sites meant to rank well in order to drive traffic through their Adsense ads..

Ledfish (msg 123)
fearlessrick (msg 127)

Very good points here about how Google may have dug themselves into a hole with their own algorithm...they obviously don't want their SERPs to sour from the "average users" (that's you me and everyong else)...with cluttered spammy listings...AND ... if a huge volume of sites are finding their way into the top of the listings in competitive sectors (as much of the recent chatter would confirm) just for the reason of creating some fractional Adsense revenue...but not for the reason of building an actual human audience...then Google must be factoring the equation of excessive Adsense Payouts vs. Cluttered useless SERPs...which will reduce their user base and cut into their revenue channels...

On the other hand...if the SERPs become "cluttered and redundant" with large volumes of scrapper/spam sites wanting only to aquire traffic volume from Google for Adsense revenue.... then Google can benefit on the PPC side of the equation as they continue to tighten up their editorial requirements for Adwords to differentiate these display ads across their distribution network from organic SERPs (the reason why I say this .. is that organic SERPs tend to be more generic in nature at the title/description level...and Google can tweak their algorithm to favor the more specific copy that tends to represented in the AdWords...by "allowing" scrapper sites to do well...though there is huge "SERPs pollution" occuring...

Unfortunately, some very strong original content driven/ecommerce sites that offer exactly what the user base is looking for per keyword phrase sectors are being damaged and negleted in all of this...

So Google is juggling some very fine points in their "algorithmic approach" ... in order to keep their revenue growing and their shareholders happy...

5:21 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Can some one of you please summarize what is this going on since many days over this forum about the Bourbon update

Why it is called bourbon?

In what resepct it was different from other google updates that is has been in talk so much since many
days?

What would be its implications?

A brief description of what has been discussed so far would be highly appreciated.

I tried to gothrough some of the threads but was lost midway..am confused

Thanks for your help

6:13 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Show up to meet the Google Guys in New Orleans on June 22nd, and ask your questions in person. Google Engineers are the ones who come up with the algos, right?

There's a thread about the Google Announcement in the Webmasterworld Community Center. Google Guys are really gonna be there.

7:06 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



spaceylacie

>There's a thread about the Google Announcement in the Webmasterworld Community Center. Google Guys are really gonna be there.<

And here it is ;-)

[webmasterworld.com...]

8:32 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Ok - 302 redirect to my site for my site name is holding steady - I am seeing a bit of traffic as a result aswell.

Still hoping that Google are working on something big and giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.

However, if not I will need to find someone to 302 redirect to every single page of my site.

8:49 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Dayo_UK

God morning!

I see no much movement on most of the DCs. Do you see the same?

Thanks.

10:02 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Nope not much happening - some sites are coming and going - but nothing dramatic.

Hard to know if update is on hold due to other factors (page rank, cache probs etc) or if we are done.

10:33 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I just think they turned the site age knob up a bit more from after midnight Friday.

Because sites over say 4 yrs old are ranking high with non relevent content over dedicated younger sites.

Likewise all the doorways, poor directory sites etc. As long as the domain is old enough they get in.

In my sector one site ranks top ten for all major related keywords and its simply a site that has about 12 links on the page with the keyword in with a re-direct to the sites home page. Anyone that searchs for blue widgets clicks the result, this spam links page flashes up then re-directs to the home page. It has a link to it from a high PR website that owns it!

Its just amazing that they had it right on Friday and now we see this pile of cr@p.

Perhaps they want cr@p serps in the hope that more paid adverts get clicked on? Over time, with serps like these users will leave in there droves.

Oh and One final thing, i notice that the unhappy with the results link has gone from the bottom of the results pages - not that they take any notice anyway!

10:34 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



How can it be done when there are two different algos more or less equally spread through the DC's or is this the new Google?
If it is then it will be a major change and Google, having a responsibility to shareholders, are very unlikely to risk rocking the boat with such a far reaching innovation. There are also other unusual factors in play here including the PR situation.
I think there is more, much more, yet to come.
10:47 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Well i hope your right JJ - because currently google results are in one big mess!.
10:51 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Because sites over say 4 yrs old are ranking high with non relevent content over dedicated younger sites.

Likewise all the doorways, poor directory sites etc. As long as the domain is old enough they get in.

My observations as well.

In fact, the Ratfink ranking at position #1 for my company name, while I languish at position #145, has all the hallmarks of a scraper page. Tons of affiliate links, big list of links with very short description, no text, a very few images, and AdSense. Very old site.

10:52 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Whats to stop Google continuously fiddling with it on a daily basis? We've got used to 'updates' being something major from time to time but just perhaps they intend having major events every day or two for a long time till they think they've got it right.
10:59 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Because sites over say 4 yrs old are ranking high with non relevent content over dedicated younger sites.

Devil advocat for old sites: I would say usually younger sites are "black hats". Older sites in good old days of pre-PR era didn't need those dirty tricks to rank good. They may be outdated though, abandonded, frustrated, lost interest, not aquiring new links etc...

Depends on what you consider old though. I'm talking about the ones like myself, who during the last century grew from AOL-tripod-geocities to "big guys". it's harder for them to implement the new bully "techniques", sometimes even for ethical reasons, and they loose the battle to "dedicated".

11:19 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

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JudgeJeffries

>How can it be done when there are two different algos more or less equally spread through the DC's or is this the new Google?<

I call this "The Rotating Algos"

You may wish to view what I wrote about it:

msg #:383
[webmasterworld.com...]

msg #:352
[webmasterworld.com...]

[google.com...]

11:20 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



JJ

Sites did not really settle consistently accross the dcs after Allerga.

That is my fear that it may be done.

12:19 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member essex_boy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



The Rotating Algos - This is a belief I have utmost faith in.

Your now teh biggest engine so people have to use you if that a decent level of traffic, the algos wonky so how else do you get in? I guess you know the answer.

Answers on a postcard please.

Times are a changing and no I dont like it, but the web is and google are big business I think you can expect further disruption err I mean improvements across the board in the near future.

12:26 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)



With all this BS going on, which obviously points to another "google aneurysm" from which they are now BRAIN DEAD......how many of you have tried to contact these anencephalic people? FWIW, I have, and of course after about 20 emails via email and their website, all ignored. I even called last weekend after my business was trashed and got an answering machine, left a message and of course as you'd expect, no call-back. If anyone wants to try:
webmaster@google.com, search-quality@google.com, dns-admin@google.com, google@google.com, help@google.com, googlebot@google.com, feeds-support@google.com . And:
650-330-0100
650-623-4000
650-253-0000

I think it's time we decent, legit, soon-to-be FORMER business ownwers all fight back. HOW, I do not know. I'd like to know where are the G-plex employees, or any G employees for that matter, on this thread? Are any here? I'd like for them to show their business-destroying presence with some explanations as to why they have their heads up their collective a**es.

12:32 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)



Google is so broken it's making Yahoo look good, and Yahoo is only adequate, it's not a steller search engine. It's really quite sad. I wonder how long it will take the average search user to realize Google SERPs aren't as good as they used to be.
......"Beachboy"

Unfortunately, the "average user" will probably never notice it and go on to continue to use it! As some pointed out after your post, things like: "I just used it and found what I needed", or, "It seems to be OK to me...", etc., that's a bad sign to us with insurmountable losses and is probably indicative of the attitudes or observations of the typical user.

All we can pray for is a TOTAL MAJOR SCREW-UP @G, so bad that their search doesn't hardly work at ALL. THEN, and probably only then will typical users realize they have "had their cranial plates implode on them". (Yeah, a lot of references to the brain in my posts--because something is wrong with THEIR "brain"). ;-)

12:40 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)



Hi Clint,
Bourbon is the name given to the update of the Google algo that caused yours and mine and many more sites to be trashed. I was working with a theory that I read in this forum that directory type sites that display Google Adsense have been devalued, but directory style sites that don't display Adsense have been spared.
......"Wibfision"

Thanks, that I knew, but I was wondering why the word or term "Bourbon".

POH-LEEZE let us know what you find out. Just what exactly do you mean by "directory"? Is that like directory pages similar to a phone book directory, pages with just link listings on them, link farms, shopping directories, etc.? THESE are the type of illegitimate sites that have replaced MY business! Also, sites with hidden text, plus many of them have AdWords and AdSense on them. So from what I saw at least, G is rewarding those that use their ads, and also rewarding those with illegitimate and non-relevant sites.

[edited by: Clint at 12:41 pm (utc) on May 29, 2005]

12:40 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I've tried Gigablast recently and I'm really impressed.
Maybe not so long before the general population cottons on like they did with Google a few years ago.
12:49 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)



And I guarantee you there are sites above me that rank for my keywords that have ZERO content related to the keywords, whereas mine do.
....."weela"

Add yet another one to that list (note my last post above). For most of my previously #1 spots, in their places are now sites that don't even have anything do with the search query!
This 789 message thread spans 27 pages: 789