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Update Dominic - Part 5

The saga!

     

dvduval

5:20 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



dvduval:
Indeed I am missing a PR7 backlink!

I checked also with the same result. I'm starting to breath easier (but that could also be the coffee wearing off!)

Worth noting: It is highly unlikely Google will reduce the size of its index. Otherwise they'll get hit with a barage of those "enlargement" emails (if you know what I mean), and that would be embarrassing!
;-)

seasalt

5:57 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



All:

Read this portion of an abstract from a paper published at Stanford last month. If you really read it you will understand in part what is going on here and it should alleviate your concerns.

"...many pages converge to their true PageRank quickly, while relatively few pages take a much longer time to converge. Furthermore, we observe that these slow-converging pages are generally those pages with high PageRank. We use this observation to devise a simple algorithm to speed up the computation of PageRank, in which the PageRank of pages that have converged are not recomputed at each iteration after convergence."

The convergence of higher PR pages has not happened yet. But I bet it will.

[dbpubs.stanford.edu...]

markis00

6:08 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'd like to say something...

although I may not be fully accustomed to the Google world yet; and may not know a lot, I have to say to everyone getting nervous:

CHILL OUT.

Obviously Google is still working with their new algos/etc, and there is some bugs to work out. My site appeared on the -sj server(was crawled last April), and currently my home page that is indexed is an old file that is no longer on my server. This can obviously reflect that Google still has to crawl my site again, either fresh or deep to update the content.

To everyone else seeing their sites dropped, backlinks rearranged/also dropped, you have to be patient and wait. As I recall, the update isn't supposed to start until May 11(Mother's day)? What we are seeing is a PRE-UPDATE. Google is getting their servers ready to execute the update.

markis00

6:10 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



One more thing:

"Maybe -sj keeps the state before that crash we experienced in the beginning of march. Maybe it's some kind of reset? "

This isn't a reset. My site appeared in the -sj index and it wasnt' crawled until April; so no worries, this isn't a reset.

jever

6:18 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i think this aint the place to chill out about google-things ;-)

WebMistress

6:43 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think a lot of what people are seeing in terms of new sites being in sj are freshbots...I have a site with PR6, 41,000 backlinks (1870 shown in google last month), and was #1 for my keywords, and now my hompage doesn't even show up for the keyword. Only an internal page does. I remember a time when this too was the case: right before I got indexed when freshbot would throw me into the top of the serps, around Feb. Coincidentally, the backlinks that show in -sj are exactly the same as those that showed in Feb. Also, I see new pages of mine in these searches, which I assume are freshbots. So, I think we're seeing old Feb stuff with freshbots thrown in. Also, when I can find my homepage it is mysite.com instead of www.mysite.com...this, too, is exactly what happened before I was indexed.

Google isn't about to make an index based on Feb results. I think there just using a known index to test their algo and then they will add the remaining deepcrawl stuff to that.

I think it's way way too early to analyze this update...it makes no sense, and in the end it will not look anything like it looks now, except maybe for those sites that were well indexed and well linked to in Feb, there may not be much change for them when the update happens.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it...:)

nnclyn

6:49 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



tough to chill when business is down almost 50%...sigh

djgreg

6:55 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



nnclyn
that'S true!
same thing with my business

Morgan

7:03 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If business is down 50% because of a Google update that isn't even half finished, there is a lot more work to be done than watching this thread.

I was penalized on Google for a few months, and it made me realize how dangerous it is to be dependent on something I have no control over and which changes monthly.

So now I'm used to business without any Google at all, it was definitely a good lesson. Not a fun one, but the sooner you diversify your traffic sources the better off you'll be. Good luck!

twilight47

7:09 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



How do so many have so much time to worry about the Google update instead of working on the content of their site?

It makes it hard to play the "Google-dance drinking game" without getting alcohol poisoning. Just my $0.02.

atadams

7:14 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As I recall, the update isn't supposed to start until May 11(Mother's day)?

How do you know that?

What we are seeing is a PRE-UPDATE.

How do you know that?

Google is getting their servers ready to execute the update.

How do you know that?

nnclyn

7:15 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Content is key to me, which is why it's so important to understand the changes google makes, as well as other search engines. Once we can understand those changes and their outcomes...we can then go back to work updating our sites. Pay-per-click will only get a person so far....but being up and found is key. When you're an online retailer..being bumped to the second page in results...hurts! (looking for a bandaid now)

True this dance is not over...but while it's in the works, it's hurting business (at least for me), and it's been moving around this way for a few days now.

curlykarl

7:17 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"tough to chill when business is down almost 50%...sigh"

I have a couple of e-comm sites and I'm seeing quite opposite.

"If business is down 50% because of a Google update that isn't even half finished, there is a lot more work to be done than watching this thread."

I agree with Morgan

If things are really that bad then I would advise you to call for back up......

Adwords? ;)

Karl

stevegpan2

7:17 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am thining sj is not the new index.

www has 45 of my new pages
but www-sj has only 20

atadams

7:24 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



How do so many have so much time to worry about the Google update instead of working on the content of their site?

A lot (most, maybe) of the people on this site don't develop the content for their sites, they are either webmasters or, more specifically, search engine optimizers (some do SEO exclusively for $$). I know I don't develop the content for my sites. A big part of my job is to keep our sites optimized for the SEs. "Worrying" about the Google update is part of my job. I need to determine what has changed at Google as quickly as possible so I can adjust my sites accordingly.

FleaPit

7:30 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have been watching sj and fi for last two days and haven't seen any flux. They are different to the main google base and in my case a lot better but there you go, I am sure they won't stay that way.

MrSpeed

7:45 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



GG,
I'm dying to know what stage we're in? Seems like we're working the pattern in reverse.


GoogleGuy From Last Update-
I've noticed the same pattern with updates. There's a happy rush as everyone crowds into the room to see how many new pages got indexed, what their PR looks like, etc. Then there's a backlash when people look around at other people's sites and how the other guy did. This middle period is when the "sky is falling! spam is worse than ever!" threads get spawned. The last period comes when people sort of reach equilibrium and start to gather notes and plan their new changes.

Bio4ce

8:08 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



but the sooner you diversify your traffic sources the better off you'll be.

It just kills me when people say this. Don't you think if it meant anything, that most people would diversify? I guess there will always people that live in a fantasy world and say things like this. Those of us that live in the real web world understand the fact that google controls about 85% of the search engine market. It's not practicle to have an online business without having a presence in google.

So webmasters have every right to freak out when 85% of people that find their site come from google and it's partners, only to find out that there is a big shake up in the serps and they are nowhere to be found.

Perfection

8:19 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm dying to know what stage we're in?

We are currently in the stage Google likes to call it's "laughing" stage. At this stage, Google does all sorts of things with their index in hopes of watching SEO's lose their minds (8 million sj posts = lost minds), while they sit at the office laughing, hence the "laughing" stage.

I would like to work for Google for the sole purpose of being part of this stage, it must be fun. =]

fathom

8:20 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member fathom is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



True enough Bio4ce - but you can also diversify in Google.

A product can be search for by many, many aliases: type, brand, usage, region, benefits, as packages or common "kits", by features, and simply for informative value.

Also as a specialty items according to dates: holidays, gifts, anniversaries, celebrations and so on.

Still the same old product though.

atadams

8:25 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It just kills me when people say this.

I agree. It kinda like if someone said "My ISP got runover by a tornado and took my server down. I lost a ton of business." and someone else replied "Well, if you need a server to run your online business, you need to think about diversifying!"

I know, I know. For illustration purposes I ignored the fact that the person should have a mirror.

Google is now an integral part of how people find websites. There really is no way around that. Ads are somewhat effective, but not nearly as effective (usually) as a high placement.

steveb

8:25 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



We are at the stage where heads should roll for discrediting the #1 brand name on the Internet. Trash is trash. It's a non-funny joke to see uk.co URLs, which no longer exist in any form, showing well in the search results, even for a few days.

It's hard to even imagine how delighted people at rival search engines are feeling today.

troi21

8:31 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



i am not clear.

has the update started or not?

pages and pages of posts and i still don't know.

mat_bastian

8:35 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"...but the sooner you diversify your traffic sources the better off you'll be."

yeah, it's a pretty smug answer and attitude not based in reality. Google and it's subsidiaries are 85% of almost everybodies traffic.

If you happened to lose 85% of your paycheck one week, you would freak out as well.

onionrep

8:37 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



>Google is now an integral part of how people find websites. There really is no way around that. Ads are somewhat effective, but not nearly as effective (usually) as a high placement.

very good point.

Ads, yeah ok, sort of works, but no where near as effective as a first page result.

Summary on the latest position anyone?

nnclyn

8:39 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



whew...I feel better now! I'm only 50% down, and not 85% (the optimistic me)

rfgdxm1

8:41 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



>Do you work at Google? I didn't think so. Are you GoogleGuy? I didn't think so. Now CHILL OUT!

I asked GoogleGuy directly in a thread here yesterday, and he responded that YES the update has started. He did comment about various algo factors to be rolled in, so don't think it is over yet.

Napoleon

8:41 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



>> Summary on the latest position anyone? <<

Has anything really changed since my post here: [webmasterworld.com...]

I don't think so. Surely we are simply following the path described there.

KevinC

8:44 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



WEll if I go to www-fi.google.com I am seeing a huge change over the results on www-sj.google.com. My links are being reported as the same on both data centers but my rankings are starting to look more like what I would expect.

So it looks like they have added something to the mix in FI that SJ does not have. It will be interesting to see this unfold.

Although I still think they should be doing this behind closed doors.

daisho

8:44 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Steveb

We are at the stage where heads should roll for discrediting the #1 brand name on the Internet. Trash is trash. It's a non-funny joke to see uk.co URLs, which no longer exist in any form, showing well in the search results, even for a few days.

I have to admit I am fairly worried about this next updated since sj does not have a very good index of my site. Missing backlinks, missing pages, low SERPs etc etc etc.

But when you look at it sj is not the index. It is an index at some point doing something that google really doesn't even want you/us to know about.

Average web surfers don't go to sj. We do to check on what _might_ come down the pipe. In the past it seemed to stand true. Though I do remember directory-sj being months old for quit awhile. Maybe they are just playin' with something new ;) and these don't reflect the new deep crawl (and that's what I'm going to keep telling myself).

daisho.

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