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Update Dominic - Part 5

The saga!

   
5:20 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



dvduval:
Indeed I am missing a PR7 backlink!

I checked also with the same result. I'm starting to breath easier (but that could also be the coffee wearing off!)

Worth noting: It is highly unlikely Google will reduce the size of its index. Otherwise they'll get hit with a barage of those "enlargement" emails (if you know what I mean), and that would be embarrassing!
;-)

8:49 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



daisho - this is exactly whats happening, if you read any of google guys recent posts he has said this time and time again.

They are unrolling the new index and gradually adding filters and back links. The big concern is how long will it take until it is done - days, weeks, month?

8:52 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



>I don't think so. Surely we are simply following the path described there

Good post Napoleon must have missed that one.

Im with kevin c though, they should have done this behind closed doors - look at the furore.

8:56 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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well i'm buggered.
i have gone from being in the top 5 for several keyphrases to being below number 50. this is very perplexing because i don't spam and i have followed everything suggested in these forums to the "t".

what weird new algo is this?

9:02 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



>WEll if I go to www-fi.google.com I am seeing a huge change over the results on www-sj.google.com.

Hmm...my main site on -fi is up to #13 from #16 on -sj (down from #4 on this SERP from last month.) Perhaps there is some hope. If anyone knows one of those Google Dance machine sites that includes -fi, sticky me. Beats having to keep an open browser window for -fi. ;)

9:02 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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what weird new algo is this?

It's an algo that is still in its testing stage... at least I hope so!

9:02 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I think the short-term is bad, but the long-term will be good. I've already notified the powers that be to expect a drop in sales in the next couple days but things will be brighter after that. Unfortunately, Google picked the wrong time to do this since I will be in Vegas on vacation and now have to work while I'm there! *sigh*
9:07 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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KevinC: Good to hear.

onionrep: In a way they did. sj is not www. You just happen to be able to look at their development server. The average joe would have no idea about this. In fact many people that are on the boards here don't seem to know about them which is why there is always questions regarding them and what they are.

troi21: I feel your pain. Page1 #2 to somewhere on page 8. Like I (and many others) have mentioned this seems to be a testing index and not the index that will roll out. As much as it hurts to see your site so low have faith that it should come back up. Like you I don't spam and I have only added content over the month. I have faith google will sort things out.

The best explanation I heard here (don't know if it's true and I forget who said it) is that it looks like google is using known data to test their new algo. When they are confident hopefully they will apply it to the new data :)

daisho.

9:10 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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As I recall, the update isn't supposed to start until May 11(Mother's day)?

How do you know that?

What we are seeing is a PRE-UPDATE.

How do you know that?

Google is getting their servers ready to execute the update.

How do you know that?

I read from another post that the update was scheduled for mother's day. It makes sense. However, if GG says I'm wrong, then I'm wrong...

9:12 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



IMO the update has only just begun and GG has indicated more changes (more spam filters, adding backlinks) to come.

Until its finished why ponder and panic? Go and build some content! In the end a good content site will do well, Google depends on it.

Smiley

9:13 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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By pre-update I mean that perhaps they are testing the new algos
9:15 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Well said Smiley.
9:17 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



>By pre-update I mean that perhaps they are testing the new algos

GG mentioned in another thread this algo spreading to other data centers before all new algo factors being added in. As this would mean more regular searchers seeing the update "live", then this is more than just a test.

9:24 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



What rfgdxm1 said. I think you'll see SJ results appear at more data centers over time.
9:27 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Googleguy, how drastic are the changes going to be once they are finalized?

a. a little
b. a lot
c. I don't know (really means I want to drive you guys crazy and make you sweat)

9:27 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



GoogleGuy -

What about the -fi index? Is this an indication of where the -sj index will go once spam filters and backlinks are added?

9:31 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Okay, here is a dumb question: Someone further up mentioned that they use to have 41,000 back links. Pardon my ignorance, but where they heck do you get 41,000 PR 4 or better backlinks from? That is a serious number of people pointing at ya, you know? Can you give an idea (without URLs or giving away and secrets) as to what these 41,000 are made up of?

Perhaps part of this update is to look at sites that have too many backlinks and examine those links more closely. Guestbooks, FFA links, and other things like that might be getting nuked this time out... maybe if we are lucky!

Alex

9:32 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



-fi is defintely changing...on -sj I was nowhere to be found for kw phrases I once did very well on...and on fi the same thing earlier, but now, I've risen to where I expect I would be given the optimization I've done. Still on my main keywords, my hompage, which has always ranked higher for these main keywords than anything else, is not even bringing up my homepage..but I think -fi is a place to watch as it is clear it is a verion of -sj with changes happening.
9:32 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"I think you'll see SJ results appear at more data centers over time."

Theres only 1 datacenter that matters, the one that normal internet users use, the main Google. Will the SJ migrate over there?

9:35 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



>What rfgdxm1 said. I think you'll see SJ results appear at more data centers over time.

Including www? If so, what is the point? Why not wait until its ready?
<added> Or was that just a red rag to a field of Bullocks :) </added>

[edited by: onionrep at 9:37 pm (utc) on May 6, 2003]

9:35 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



google.com is just a random datacenter.
9:38 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



What markusf wrote. When you search google.com, you actually end up at -sj, -fi, or one of about 8 other data centers. This is why during the dance some searchers using google.com see the old results, and some the new.
9:42 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



GoogleGuy... any chance of some slight clarity on the 2 points below.

1. We know that various filters and backlinks will be added OVER TIME... OVER TIME are we talking :

a). days
b). weeks
c). months

2. When you say that the SJ results/algo will be ported to other datacentres does this include WWW (I presume not).

Thanks.

9:50 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The other datacentres are WWW aren't they? rfgdxm1 explained a few posts ago...

It's the update. Things will change over time when other parameters take hold, but this is it for now. It will be on www soon.

9:52 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have the 41,000 backlinks, I gained them through either a MAJOR link exchange campaign or exchanging free graphics work or webmaster work in exchange for links...not all are on topic, but all have keyword anchor text. Even if I took away the off-topic links I have from graphics and webmasterwork, I'd have enough on-topic backlinks to blow my competitors away...they extras are just insurance. I don't see any problem in terms of having too many backlinks...I've researched it, and it hasn't hurt anybody I've seen with backlinks in my neighborhood (like Macy's, GeorgeWbush, or coca-cola). I just got creative. There are more ways to get links than begging for link exchanges. I'm at a place now where people come to me for link exchanges..that's a nice break.
9:56 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oh, by the way, none of my links are from guestbooks or FFA's..they are from sites positioned well in google. I just got lucky actually when someone needed my talent, and I thought quick and worked out an agreement to give them that talent in exchange for links. And they had 14 huge sites....then I marketed this idea to other sites in exchange for links. It kind of does make a joke of the link popularity factor, since these links are not pointing at me as a vote per se. But what links do? Not many. Most of us are just trying to get links any way we can.
9:59 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



oops

[edited by: textex at 10:21 pm (utc) on May 6, 2003]

10:00 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Webmistress, that may be the rub - has google, in an attempt to stop people from buying expired domains and using them to boost other domains shut down "non-related" links?

Just a thought, ya know!

Also, those 41k links are spread over how many domains? Are you talking hundreds of pages per domain, or 41k unique domains?

Alex

10:04 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



How this related to this post was an early post regarding my latest position in -sj and backlinks..I mentioned it, and it became a question. My links are spread out very well. Google does a nice job of filtering those from the same sites. But it doesn't hurt me because I have so many links from sites on only one page of a sitr that are all on topic. I'm not worried about my backlinks at all in terms of this update or ever.
10:12 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Having spent the better part of the afternoon reading through all five threads, here are my observations:

1. In my case, two of the sites I work on have freshbot results from early April included, however the deepbot crawl from later in the month is nowhere in sight.

2. The Google directory is out of date -- doesn't include sites that were included in the April update.

3. PR seems to be about 2 months out of date.

10:12 pm on May 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



>Webmistress, that may be the rub - has google, in an attempt to stop people from buying expired domains and using them to boost other domains shut down "non-related" links?

And, how is Google supposed to figure out if the link is from a related page or not? With billions of pages, adding that in the algo would be non-trivial. Also, such a filter would lead to a lot of false positives. For example, I link from my page about vodka to your page about Scotch whiskey. Both are obviously related. However, since your page is laden with the keywords "Scotch whisky", and mine "vodka", to an algo it wouldn't look like it.

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