Update Dominic - Part 2

[teeceo]

Continued from Part 1: [webmasterworld.com...]

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Thanks to google for letting us peek into there database( they could very easy close that door to us)and a thanks to googleguy for "DONATING" his time to answer question(that he don't have to) and for keeping thing here (somewhat) calm. Also, thanks to all that work so hard to keep this forum going strong(I for one don't know how I would get along without it:). I could go on and on but, thats all I will say. Later.

teeceo.

[beachlover]

I get www-sj results on www-ex right now ...

[Critter]

GG, am I to understand that the -sj isn't a final copy? That new sites are still being added as you find b/links?

It would be a shame to get dropped completely :(

Peter

[mfishy]

"as we bring in differnet backlinks"

What does that mean?

[Chicago]

-SJ is NOT showing last months index. The new sites that were included in the deep crawl last month are not there. I have looked at over a dozen examples.

This is NOT yet a complete index. What is listed my be accurate, but what is not isn't yet accurate?!

[Traveler]

GG
To use PsychoBabble:
"What I hear you saying is...."

SJ=New Algo, now migrating to all datacenters
BUT
The info is from an older database, with some freshbot thrown on top (explains new pages but old backlink counts)

Thus, the comment, "as we bring in other links"...

Therefore, the new algo + update to show all new links will be the new SERP results.

Yes?

[Critter]

This is now officially driving me bananas...

[Perfection]

The only real problem I notice on sj, if it is the update, is that new stuff didn't get picked up. New pages of a site with a PR6 that went up well in time to be included in this update (if this is the update) are not in. Backlinks that I got for 1 site, again, very much in time to get picked up in time for this update (just missed the previous update), are still not showing yet. So basically, backlinks and new pages that I thought might have actually gotten in just in time for the PREVIOUS update, are still not showing in this new one, if indeed it is the update.

Other than that, it looks pretty normal to me for my site's keywords.

[Canary]

OK! - Deep Breaths .... Deep Breaths.

From what GG is saying if you have a new site launched February onwards then things should improve when backlinks etc are being added - OK one site taken care of.

GG - dont know if you can answer this or not - one of my sites has had a total re-design (Early March) and lots of pages are not showing and has not been picked up by freshbot - Is it likely/possible that these pages maybe added as the index develops? (Site fluctuates between PR4 and PR5)

[Critter]

The results I'm getting for the keyword I've been testing are the exact same results I saw back in February...before a successful crawl by Google.

As it stands, if the -sj index is accurate right now then I'll be on Inktomi, Fast, Teoma, and Altavista...but nowhere on Google.

Unbelievable

[twilight47]

I much newer to all SEO, but I'm assuming that pre-update anxiety isn't always at this level.
Is this just because strange things are afoot at the "Sircle J"?

[mcavic]

I much newer to all SEO, but I'm assuming that pre-update anxiety isn't always at this level.
Is this just because strange things are afoot at the "Sircle J"?

Yep. It's because the data showing on the sj server is wrong.

[webdev]

What about if you've had a site in for over a year always a nice PR 5 went to 6 once, completely clean and now on main key phrases buried behond any point.

Doesn't make any sense...

[korkus2000]

Critter I think Traveler has hit the nail on the head in msg 125. Old database new algo. The update will be new database new algo.

[GoogleGuy]

Traveler, good question. From the first few posts of that 500+ thread, several people mentioned that they have some very new results in SJ. It's natural that we would test new methods by using a known base of backlinks, but that shouldn't be discouraging to people--backlinks are the sort of data that Google could bring back in over a relatively short time frame. And the same thing goes for known snapshots of spam--that can be brought in fairly quickly as well. SEOs notice whether a backlink comes from two months ago or one month ago, but typical users would care more about fresher pages.

[edited by: GoogleGuy at 5:08 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[Chicago]

that's it, indeed. makes perfect sense.

[Critter]

Soooooo, what we're looking at is that -sj has old index with new algo applied.

And the update will be the new results with the new algo applied?

(Anybody get the license of that bus?)

Peter

[Canary]

Yep - should read before I post.

My point is basically the same as Traveler...is it just backlinks being added or recent crawl (Dont think that one will be answered :( )

[chiyo]

A few who were at the pubconference reported here that a Goog rep said one should expect to see the effects of their new hidden text detectors (and maybe - correct me if im wrong - their ability to parse js better) "within a few days".

Im wondering whether that is part of what we are seeing in sj? - not wanting to dispute or downgrade any other elements people are seeing in sj.

[edited by: chiyo at 5:10 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[mfishy]

Yah, agreed about message 125 except Google Guy has not confirmed this.

Also he said that they have tested this index.

How can you test an index before factoring all the backlinks? I would imagine after updatingthe links, the results would change dramatically and the test would be irrelevant.

[Critter]

Guess I picked the wrong month to quit sniffing glue...

>:)

Peter

[Perfection]

Soooooo, what we're looking at is that -sj has old index with new algo applied.
And the update will be the new results with the new algo applied?

After looking everything over, this makes the most possible sense to me as to what is going on.

[webdev]

I can gurantee stopping hidden text isn't working as there's poeple on the first page using half a page of it below their main page.

[rfgdxm1]

>Critter, it wouldn't surprise me to see SJ results start to show up at other data centers soon.

Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

NO. GG, please say no. <snip> :( Personally for my sites what has happened is not so bad; SERPs ain't that much different. However, my sites are a classic example of what is wrong with sj. Both sites are on a somewhat related topic; as in the main one is about widgets in general, and the second specifically just about a specific brand name that contains widgets as an ingredient. The main site has dropped from #4 to #15 for "widgets". However, the second smaller site about a specific brand name that contains widgets, which really isn't well optimized for "widgets" at all, has shot up from #15 to #6 for "widgets"? And, on the SERP for "widgets" at #9 is some totally irrelevant obscure "Pay Per Click Search Engine Directory & Portal" home page that doesn't even mention "widgets" on the page. I have no idea at all how this site got to page 1; I'm 100% certain they wouldn't have tried any shady techniques to do well for "widgets" (which is a non-commercial term that is not at all competetive). Thus, them being at #9 can only be an algo bug of the sort I'd expect from Wisenut, but not Google.

Please note I'm not beefing just because my ox has been gored. I'm still doing very well for all other search terms, and that the wrong site is page 1 now for "widgets", a little lower on the SERPs, isn't a major worry. However, I can see from just this example the algo is hosed. And, some other SERPs I've checked I am not listed in show similar problems with irrelevant, or spam, results. If sj is the future of Google, then Google is definitely going downhill in quality.

[edited by: rfgdxm1 at 5:16 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[edited by: ciml at 5:29 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]
[edit reason] See sticky... [/edit]

[mcavic]

Soooooo, what we're looking at is that -sj has old index with new algo applied.

But the problem is, from what I'm seeing, it's not just an old database but a combination of (not very) old results and new results, with some pages dropped.

[rfgdxm1]

>Guess I picked the wrong month to quit sniffing glue...

I guess Google picked the wrong month to start sniffing glue. :(

[GoogleGuy]

Critter, the SJ index isn't an older index. You can verify that by doing a topical query such as SARS. The results are more fresh in SJ than they are in our regular index.

[soapystar]

how can my internal pages be showing more links that my index page which is on every page and has lots of external links....?...thats neither an old database nor new...its just wrong!

[hightraffic10]

So the next question is, when is all this going down?

[chrisnrae]

Googleguy.. I have to ask, simply because it is driving me nuts...

I have a site, around for a year, high PR5, linked to by authority sites in the industry. My three top search phrases are made up of four words mixed and matched....

kw1 kw2 kw3 - was #1, not not in the top 500 on SJ - term brings 1,910,000 results

kw2 kw3 kw4 - was #2, now not in the top 500 on SJ - term brings 740,000 results

kw2 kw3 - was #9, now #8 - term brings 4,190,000 results

I am just curious as to how that is logical LOL. I drop of the face of the google earth for the two smaller keyphrases, yet move up one slot for the most competitive keyword in the industry?

Clean site, no shady tactics... so, just curious as to how that happens as above. I could at least understand, although not be happy, if the site was completely dropped... but how do I go up on the most competitive phrase and die on the second two most competitive? when the phrase of the most competitive search string is within the two others?

[edited by: chrisnrae at 5:17 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[Canary]

GoogleGuy,

The Sars query could be a result of freshbot listing sticking?

How come we have seen some many reports of pages missing :?