Update Dominic - Part 2

[teeceo]

Continued from Part 1: [webmasterworld.com...]

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Thanks to google for letting us peek into there database( they could very easy close that door to us)and a thanks to googleguy for "DONATING" his time to answer question(that he don't have to) and for keeping thing here (somewhat) calm. Also, thanks to all that work so hard to keep this forum going strong(I for one don't know how I would get along without it:). I could go on and on but, thats all I will say. Later.

teeceo.

[GoogleGuy]

Definitely agree with you there, Napoleon. The data and links will be taken into account. I may get to 2000 posts much quicker than 1000 posts just from the threads this month. :)

JudgeJeffries, I can't commit to a set timeframe, especially when lots of factors (update + new technology) come into play. I know that we're just as eager as webmasters to apply things to bring us up to present and then move forward. If the update happens first, it would make sense for that to finish and then for things to start moving forward again.

[KevinC]

You know I really feel sorry for you GG!

I'm not sure how much clearer you could be - you have said a number of times that other factors like new BACKLINKS and filters have not been added to the equation yet.

But you keep getting the same questions. I think this is the start of an update but most likely when all factors are added it will look nothing like what we are seeing now.

Although your last comment msg #:257 you kinda of made it sound like you guys are gonna go live with this index and gradually add the backlinks ect. - then again you have also said that its not a big deal to add.

[edited by: KevinC at 6:46 pm (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[jk3210]

Folk, please...

IF Google is testing a new spam/hidden text filter, which supposedly they are, wouldn't it be logical for them to test it first on an OLD index, so that there would be only ONE VARIBLE in the test?

If they tested their new filter on a NEW index, that would be TWO VARIBLES. How could they determine to success/failure of the test?

So, isn't it possible/probable that you are NOW looking at a spam/hidden text filter test applied first to an old index, with the new one to follow shortly?

[DVDBurning]

Webmasters -

Reasons not to hit the panic button yet...
* SJ results did not include a full Google index (database).
* SJ results did not include the effects of the most recent deepcrawl... but did include some freshbot results.
* SJ results did not reflect the latest SPAM filters - therefore some bad sites were included in the SERPs that will not remain after the next dance.

It seems to me that we still have a Dance scheduled for a week or so from now. The real results of the SJ algorithm update will become clear after the next dance, when a complete, updated Google database is used, and when all SPAM filters are applied.

Of course, if your site's ranking was based on nothing but Guestbook links, you might want to get to work on some real backlinks.

[renee]

"What sort of time period are we talking about before everything is applied and the results settle down.......days...weeks? "

Haven't you heard? It will never settle down. Continuous updates from here on! Long Live the Freshie!

[GoogleGuy]

It's a little wild, KevinC. Answering WebmasterWorld questions, then Google email, then WebmasterWorld questions. I hope no one expected much regular work from me today. :)

[Yidaki]

I wonder what exactly they are testing at sj-google. I've been thinking that they test the hidden stuff thing. But as per now the results at sj seem to in fact include a lot of top 1 positions that use hidden text and links. Also guestbook links seem to count like a standard link. I did some simple checks on guestbooks that are used heavily for link promo (tons of links from different "seo aware webmasters" like any-widget-star-nude.net, widget-insurrance.org, widget-gambling.tv...) because they have a decent pr. All of such promoted sites rank in the top spots (about #1 - #5) for the targeted keywords allthough all of their incoming links are coming from guestbooks. Should i also sign the thousands of presidential fan club guestbooks or the tons of alumni guestbooks to tell them about my uncle's real estate site...? ;)

I though that the "we sign 100 guestbooks for 50$" offers i continously receive by email were a joke ...

I'm curious if the spam filters will be enabled at the end of the game and are not yet active?

[markusf]

Maybe start another thread called "status of SJ-Datacenter/Update" And post what we know. Going through 100's of posts trying to figure out what is going on is very time consuming...

[born2drv]

A new SJ thread?

I think SJ will need it's own forum soon :)

News, Adwords, Toolbar, IPO and SJ

[markusf]

Yidaki, Efactory said that the SJ datacenter has been redirecting queries for months to other data centers and it only just came back online a few days ago. If google took a whole data center offline for months to do a couple of test builds of the index i think we can be reasonablely sure this index will get built and work properly in a relatively quick fashion...

[takagi]

Hi mauijaws, Welcome to WebmasterWorld.

There are 2 kinds of bots, freshbot and deepbot. If the cache is missing, then your site is most likely visited by freshbot. This normally means that the pages will disappear after a few days from Google's SERP (Search Engine Results Page). But that is not so important now because the update will come real soon.

[JudgeJeffries]

Mr GG, why are you doing all this in public?

[ciml]

Yidaki:
> Not saying the whole sj index is messed...

Well, search engines have been known to mess the results up just a little. It makes it harder for people to see inside.

[Yidaki]

markusf, i know that building and swapping a new index takes time. But that's no explanation to the fact that (in google's official word: major) parts of the algo improvements, like the guestbook links and hidden stuff detection, obviously don't work yet.

Just curious why.

[renee]

"Mr GG, why are you doing all this in public?"

This is part of the experiment and algo development. Google tests the algo results for reactions from the general public (intermittent sj index in www) and the webmaster population. We are part of the experiment! Think how many wrist slashings there would be if the SJ index just suddenly became the new index without Google having us preview.

[markusf]

Yidaki a update of this magnitude would be done in batches, I would expect there are a few hundred filters, modifications etc that are applied to the index and each one takes time. It could take a week or 2 before all the fitlers are applied..

[Yidaki]

I like this:

We are part of the experiment!

brrr, this sound sooo, scary ... ;)

[GoogleGuy]

markusf, you sound like a computer person. :)

[Canary]

I know that it all takes time - I hope that Google have a few more spam filters to apply to the index - not just re-populating the data.

So the likely spam filters attempted so far:-

Reduce PR pass through from Guestbooks.
Crackdown on Hidden Text.
anymore that GG has hinted at?

[Yidaki]

>It could take a week or 2 before all the fitlers are applied

I guess, i'm not the only one who'll monitor how the things get finished. ;)

[mauijaws]

Hi takagi,

thanks for your answer. 2 updates ago the pages were not in the index. if they took the old index and the current freshbots it makes sense.

Hoping the best.

PS: GG, that's what I call "customer" care! Rarely seen a company with such a high response level. Considering that you are just one person. You are ... just ... one ... person, right?!? BTW, did you see Multiplicity?

[albert]

Attempt to recapitulate (all was said before):

1. SJ shows some new algo effects concerning backlinks (mostly obscure backlinks).

2. SJ - at the moment - is working with an index mixed up with old data and some freshbot data, not with the ongoing index.

3. Changing the algo like this can't be done offstage. I really don't think they use our feedback here as corrective (they might find it interesting, anyway ...).

What I expect with the upcoming update:

Actual index, previously excluded spam sites disappearing again.

Less backlinks due to new algo.

More value for users.

Not so bad.

[GoogleGuy]

Thanks, mauijaws! Right now I'm just one person, but I reserve the right to bring in other people someday in the future. :)

[markusf]

Googleguy

Yup, i've done stuff like the "google update" for huge corperations and thier databases. Planning/Updating hundreds of millions of records is NOT fun. No matter what you do, there will always be errors and someone will be unhappy.

There is a saying, that you can do 90% of the work in 10% of the time, and the remaining 10% takes 90% of the time. I think removing spam from the index is like that ;)

[skipfactor]

Won't that be dup content? :)

[Canary]

Yep, GG it is very good customer care.

If I had to say anything about my company it would be filled with so much small print that it would be worthless...

Along the lines of the views of the person on this website are those of the author. XXX company does not have any association with these statements etc etc etc etc

[Pegasus]

I just hope Google starts considering the Voting Buttons some time.

I don't write articles for my website very frequently, but when I do, I make sure I create carefully-thought out, original information.

I get loads of positive feedback on my site, But Google can't pick that up.

Of the other high ranking sites in my topic, there are some really great sites, and there are "warehouses of crap", but Google can't tell the difference.

Bring on the Voting Buttons! :)

[GoogleGuy]

albert, what you said, except I wouldn't be surprised to see SJ show up at other data centers first, and then to start applying the newer data/filters after that.

[albert]

Thanks, GoogleGuy.

How many posts of you will it take before we see that dance? ;)

[MrSpeed]

I have one site where the cache on sj is 4 days old.

I have another site where the cached version is at least 24 days old. The last update to this site was 4/11/03. Deepbot never crawled the site till after 4/11.

Could we only be seeing freshbot pages?