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I understand the non-profit nature of dmoz and can see that there hasn't been a proper dump done yet.. the thing that I find interesting (hence the post in this thread), is that I've had a few sites pop up this index who are using the ODP data for search results.. and they include my site.. which was only added in early December to the directory.. How are those directories getting the information? Could they be adding new sites manually?
We blow them away in any particular category we have interest in but my point was that ALL the spam reports we sent to Google about them were totally ignored. I assure you, we know how to properly complete and submit spam reports.
<edit> Damnn.. 300 domain names, how does one ever have time to do all that work? My one site which is several thousand pages CERTAINLY keeps me busy 10-12 hours a day (to properly maintain that is) </edit>
Google doesn't rely on just the dump. They also *crawl* the ODP. If you go to the Google directory, you see a 4 month old version of the ODP. However, if you search the web with google.com, that includes what has been added by ODP editors up to about a month ago. I can see using the Google link: command ODP backlinks of sites I myself have added as an ODP editor that are more than a month old. As such, these sites are getting the benefit of the fact I added them to the ODP database in the Google web search even though they are not in the Google directory. Also, please note that the current ODP database *is* publicly available if you go to dmoz.org. The downstream partners like Google are 4 months out of date, but direct ODP users see a current database.
Chiyo, I think you're probably right there about the scripts.. Wouldn't it be great if Google Directory followed their example :)
>Google doesn't rely on just the dump. They also *crawl* the ODP
RFG, I do understand that and my query was not relating to Google crawling DMOZ.. I had already noticed that and see the benefit of that. My query was relating to Google crawling downstream sites of DMOZ and finding my site.. I was hoping maybe Google would soon follow.. but looks like these smaller sites have just developed a different way of handling DMOZ data... see Chiyos post for the answer to my query...
I think it's the least they can do to keep the directory up to date considering they use the results for free, sort it by PR and call it a Google Directory ;)
Or maybe they can become more serious about making their own directory or partnering with another directory company like Yahoo! This stale DMOZ directory is a disgrace for Google, dammit! :)
Check out the number of "results" for your "keyword" search.. anything over 500k is going to take a lot of work and LINKS LINKS LINKS to get you on the front page..2nd page (the only pages that matter)
dauction, I disagree with your quote above (in the nicest possible way :)).
I have a relatively new site that even when it was PR 2 was ranked 1-10 for some of my keywords with over 800k results in one case, many others 500k plus. My new PR has gone to 4 (some new links from Yahoo and DMOZ I think) but I don't worry about PR too much - content is what matters and if your content is unique that is a major factor in a successful site I believe (the PR should follow). Targeting multiple and niche keywords works well too.
I'm no expert, all I did was read a few posts here on titles, headings, meta myths etc. It worked for me and now I'm following Brett's '12 months to a successful site with Google' with good success. The hardest part is the create-crawl-update cycle is so slow :).
PS GoogleGuy, add April 25 to your list (Anzac Day in Australia).
GoogleGuy - I didn't mean to be harsh, but Google is getting a free ride with DMOZ, they should be able to contribute something (or someone for temporary assistance) to help keep it up and running. Or maybe buy it off AOLTW completely.
And please don't beat me up or take my PR away, I still love you guys... keep up the good work! ;)
It influences SERPS in a totally unrealistic manner based upon the global sites being more important than any others, which most often is not the case.
If there is one single thing I would like to see in 2003 from Google it would be to ditch DMOZ and the associated Google directory.
Powdork, try inquiring about your submissions over at the resource-zone.com in the Submission Status forum. You'll at least get a reply.
1. Use the Yahoo directory
2. Sort it by PR
3. Don't give *ANY* PR benefit to actually being IN the yahoo directory, (make all PR come from outside sources only).
That would eliminate most all the spam issues and give a great resource. Google could even "offer" to use Yahoo's directory from them for free (or even get paid), since the value of a yahoo listing would be more important thus generating more revenue for Yahoo. Especially now since it is almost useless, I can't see many people paying for it other than to cover all the bases.
Google obviously doesn't like to use human intervention for anything and Yahoo does, you could get your site in both directories very fast, Win-Win-Win for Yahoo-Google-webmaster!
[edited by: born2drv at 10:22 am (utc) on Jan. 2, 2003]
Now.. in other matters more relating to this thread.. back in the early posts there was a mention of updating the TCP/IP hosts file and then being able to see the ranking from www2. I've tried that.. but my ranking is still stuck on 'unranked'. Unlike the post, I'm only on a Win98 comp, so had to find the file elsewhere.. it was located in the Windows root folder. Changing it has resulted in the Google Toolbar popping up in my sytem folders which is kind of cool, but still isn't showing any rank.. I am expecting at least some ranking this month.. with over 80 backlinks registering on Google. I was ranked two months ago as a 6, but lost it due to some foolish coding that resulted in error codes for the GoogleBot.
Do I just need to wait a few more days, or is there a way to find out early for my impatient self?
Far too many people seem to derive perverse pleasure from the former, hence the well out of order attacks on DMOZ... which is THE kingpin directory on the net.
>> Use the Yahoo directory <<
Yes... that would certainly help destroy the prospects of the small guy and push the web further into the realms of a totally commercial entity. Is that what you want? Do understand the ramifications of a disasterous move like that.
I would prefer a free for entry, INFORMATION based directory which is not used simply to line the pockets of a large corporation. One that ordinary webmasters like myself can be involved in by editing the categories in which I have expertise. One that is open and one that is established in almost every corner of the net and tends to reflect its better aspects.
Ahhh... well that would be DMOZ then!
Please get this into perspective. Yes, there are problems (eg: with the dump) - and yes, it is an excellent suggestion that Google could/should play a part in resolving them. But that's as far as it goes. Recognize DMOZ for what it is and please lay off the unwarrented abuse.
The best move Google can make is to draw DMOZ closer. By fully integrating the Internet's two best, quality-driven informational entities... now that would be something. DMOZ simply needs a little money, paid humans, thrown into the problem areas.
Google owning DMOZ is obviously more sensible than Netscape/AOL or anybody else owning it. They just need to pull the trigger and buy it. Do that and none of the other pretenders stand a chance in the search business for the forseeable future.
You can't expect spam-fighting editors in commercial directories with zero hidden agendas and fast service to come cheap (or free). Nothing is free :)
Unless Google wants to go the editorial route or create a magical algo to determine cats with no spam, they should consider outsourcing it to someone. Maybe Yahoo could offer a 6-week submission for $99 (equiv. to time to get in DMOZ) and 3-day for $299 like they did in the past for commercial sites. This would be very acceptable if you ask me, if it resulted in a high quality directory which I'm sure it would.
Or maybe Google could create a "category" meta tag webmasters could use (one per site), or use Froogle to crawl and index the entire web into commercial cats and add it to DMOZ informational sites to create a new hybrid directory all togehter, but something should be done.
Depending on DMOZ for quality directory results is questionable, now that they are totally unreliable they should be dumped. Besides, if Google becomes a full fledged portal like many believe, don't you think the possibility of AOL severing ties with Google is a possibility? Then they would have to get an alternate directory plan in place anyway. It would be in Google's best interest to do something, soon.