Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 126.96.36.199
Forum Moderators: open
I totally agree.
I was an early adopter of Google. Now I'm an early re-adopter of Yahoo. It seems to display the most relevant, up-to-date search engine results these days. Kind of like Google was a year ago.
I second that. BTW, MSN has started getting better and better but it still can't surpass Yahoo and Google.
The problem is that while Google still remains on top of the market we will have to optimize for it. I personally wouldn't like loosing between 50 and 60% of my traffic.
Just like Internet Explorer is hell for my coding, I think Google will end up the same. But, like I said, both IExplore and Google have the majority so we must comply. For now!
joined:Oct 27, 2001
I don't know what Google's problem is, but if I had to guess, I'd say they have overthought everything.
I'd guess that an even bigger reason is the explosive growth of the Web, and of template-based "button-pusher" sites that flood the Web with millions of scraper pages, affiliate pages, "review this topic" pages, etc. for every imaginable keyword and keyphrase. In such an environment, how can a general-purpose search index be expected to return decent results for anything but the most esoteric keyphrases?
I think Google needs to make some hard decisions about what constitutes "information" or "content" and about whether a single, giant, general-purpose index will continue to attract and retain users in the years ahead. At some point, organized chaos simply becomes chaos.
I'd say they have overthought everything. It's likely part of the natural cyclical process of getting too many PhDs into a room together.
I have been thinking the same thing for a while... Hey Google, you are a publicly traded company who is there to make money for stockholders. Listen to your adwords guys more...they are great and really have it nailed. You are not the Republic of the Web and Joe surfer doesn't care if a site appeared in the SERPs because they used spam techniques. Joe surfer just cares if they find the product, service or information that they were looking for.
Done with my rant.
I recently ran a little experiment with a newly launched site (it's mine). I had 40 friends install the Alexa toolbar and place my site's index as their homepage for 5 or 6 days. The ranking went down from 4 million to just under 1 - in just one week.
I think these measurements are somewhat accurate under the 10.000 number, but even some of those could be inflated easily!
It is very unprofessional for Google not to make a comment on this Pagerank to the public, they are not a private organization anymore.
No comment means one of two things
1) There is a problem they won't admit and are unprofessional about reporting it
2) They rid themselves of Pagerank technology but never told the webmasters, the very same people they keep coming on here and asking to give them feedback all the time, UNPROFESSIONAL slap in the face to webmasters... as I have stated before, you all keep telling everyone on these forums how to SEO and tell Google how we SEO and in the end we all loose Google gains... do you really think they care about any of you.. look at the way this is being handled.
I wish there were a smarter bunch of webmasters in the world. Wake up people.
PS - For #*$!x sake don't edit the goods in this post... as I said it is straight out how it is.
1 - Google just updated a new version of the Google bar with a slot for page rank indicator in it.
2 - The server went offline last friday, just after some major update got stabilised.
So just let those guys in California sip their coffee while the server is working offline.
Just stop the panic!
Can we all survive without pagerank indications for a couple of days?
Unfortunately, we do not have a solution to pass along at this time. Our Toolbar Engineering Team is investigating this issue, and we hope to release an improved version of the PageRank feature in the future. In the meantime, we would recommend that you disable PageRank by performing the steps below: (snip)
The thing is though that these 3 major search engines do, for the most part, return "acceptable" results and so users continue to use them. Perhaps human edited directories like DMOZ do/can/might return better results, it seems like the average user has no reason to go looking for something better since the SERPs from Google and Yahoo are still acceptable at this point. It would be interesting however if a huge directory like DMOZ did a multi-million dollar advertising campaign and got a bunch of people to actually use it.
Of course you still have the problem of freshness which current directories just don't have. I think that's another reason people like to use search engines, because they know they can find info on anything they are looking for, even if it takes a few extra minutes to get past the spam, etc.
Still, it seems like niche directories/portals have got to be the future of "search" ...
Today's Top 5 Questions
What are advanced features in Toolbar 3.0?
Pagerank is not dead Im with brett on this one
"The toolbar pr indicator has been offline many times before. It's just a "we are working on it" glitch..."
[edited by: The_Grizzler at 5:22 pm (utc) on May 30, 2005]
They rid themselves of Pagerank technology but never told the webmasters
Or, perhaps.. they are still using PageRank, just don't want to tip their hand and help those that want to manipulate [enhance] their results? (US!)
It's a challenge to be overcome. Google does not owe webmasters or SEO's any keys to their algo. They also do not owe webmasters an easy way to put value on their linking pages by announcing their PR value, thereby - further eroding Google's control over what they think is machine determined relevance.
Personally, I am surprised they did not pull the PR number as soon as text links were being sold on that basis.
Before PR, there was SEO... and thereafter
<hint>Perhaps they will allow Google Advertising Professionals, or "certified by Google" SEO's to take a peek. Or charge a fee. </hint>
Without getting into the old black/white hat argument, White Hat SEO's help them deliver their product.
Exactly! it is a slap in the face, no matter how ya slice it.. they keep getting the goods from us and personally I feel we keep getting the cold shoulder, I really think it is about themselves and not the good of the webmasters... always felt this way actually.
They gain we loose... unless they start being more vocal I cant take them seriously since them going IPO, hickup I mean bent over for the fund managers.....
I see 'em so deep in ^%$# they got flies buzzin' round their ears.
Always just my very well educated opinions...
As developers, we use logic to create our magic. Why not apply the same logic to whats going on?
Google will from time to time have glitches. We've all seen some pretty weird stuff happen, whether it be a problem with servers, problems with sites being indexed faster than others or Google themselves being hacked.
While they are a public company, whether they choose to carry on with PR or not has nothing to do with their ability to make money. thus, they do not have to report it.
From a marketing standpoint, it would make sense for them to say something IF the PR is a thing of the past. They havent said anything, so its not unrealistic to expect that PR is still around, warts and all.
Google just released a beta version of their new toolbar, and for anyone willing to do more than just skim over it, you'll see that on the second page, the PR is right there, in all its glory.
The PR went down Friday afternoon, just at the start of the Memorial Day long weekend. A coincidence? Anyone who has completed any type of launch will tell you that the weekend is the best time for a go/no go launch. If the PR is being updated or revamped, a long weekend when many Americans should be enjoying the good weather, wont be online worries about the toolbar.
PR is here to stay. Thats not to say that it wont be revamped or improved, but PR is the whole basis that Google started with. Its their foundation. To turn their back on it would be a PR (public relations) problem. Can you imagine the spin: Google Admits PR is Garbage: Starts with Something New
I have a sneaking suspicion that by tomorrow morning, the toolbar will be working and all the grey clouds will be lifted.
What are advanced features in Toolbar 3.0?
The advanced features for the Google Toolbar 3.0 are PageRank, AutoLink, SpellCheck, and WordTranslator.
The PageRank button indicates the PageRank for the page you're currently viewing. PageRank is the importance Google assigns to a page based on an automatic calculation of factors such as the link structure of the web. For more information on PageRank, please visit [google.com...]
Some of the hypocrisy that runs in this thread is unbelievable.
I hate to be the one to bring you the bad news but google is there for regular Joe surfer NOT the webmasters.
Google had a great search engine who used an ingenious new method to decide which pages are relevant for the keywords that were presented.
Unfortunately, they revealed too much about the inner workings of their engine, which led to a lot of webmasters misusing this information to put their sites first on the search results.
People are complaining that google's search engine is broken and they are right. It is broken. But it is not broken because of google, it is broken because of seo and those same webmasters who throw the blame on google.
Look how beautiful google was before the seo boom. The SERP's were right on the mark and it was truly the best search engine available. Now, it is not.
I am sorry to say that, but 99% of all the affiliate sites have no useful content whatsoever. They are no more useful than any other ad you see on T.V or in a newspaper. Actually, they are worse. Lots of affiliates give false or not entirely true information about their products.
And don't tell me about white or black hat seo. All seo is bad. Exchanging even 1 link, already puts you on the side of the tricksters. If your site was really useful, with good content, it would have gotten to the top NATURALLY. Just like in the beginning (Remember that?).
I am aware that people will do anything to make money. I don't blame them for not caring about ruining the search engine for me or any other Internet user, selfishness is only human nature. But to come here and say the google messed it up? Come on...
Only thing is - other search engines have the same amount of cr@p on the web to deal with (OK they often dont goes as deep) but they seem to be less Buggy (at the moment anyway). I am sure all the little GGs will sort it out in time. :)
it is a slap in the face, no matter how ya slice it.. they keep getting the goods from us and personally I feel we keep getting the cold shoulder, I really think it is about themselves and not the good of the webmasters... always felt this way actually.... unless they start being more vocal I cant take them seriously since them going IPO
I don't like google and never did. I don't trust them. They think they are alone and don't care about anyone. They know that there is a lot of people concerned with what is happening to the toolbar, they know that there is a lot of people depending on that, and they simply don't care and have the mouth shut. I don't care if they remove or substitute PR or whatever they want. I don't use PR as seriously as I use other tools, I don't depend on PR, and I use yahoo 90% of the time.
But there is one thing that really pisses me off, and always did - their behavior. Given that there is a lot of people affected, and that most of that people have helped them to develop their business in some way, I think it's a major blow simply disregard them. Most people here can live without PR or other tool, but they NEED to know what's happening in order to make a decision in regard to their business. Keeping a grey PR for days without notice, is a bad business practice, a major blow to shareholders and webmasters, and is one more reason to what I always thought.
Please someone say them that they are listed on the Stock Exchange.
If everybody has good SEO, then we'll be back where we started, apart from everyone will have to take the time to do their SEO.
With that said, my comments are that I never really understood why they showed us pr in the first place.. It only hurt their relevance and allowed webmasters to game them. Myself included..
I am personally hoping it goes away for good.. I believe they have always skewed the visual pr to see the trends in SEO. They have had a view into our computers and therefor into our seo practices for years (with all the toolbars installed). This is the only reason I can think that they showed it. They were able to collect data on how we try gaming them and are able to put counter measures in place... I feel they are comfortable with the data collected and are removing that functionality.
Their "free toolbar" has come at a price to the webmaster community as a whole. I do not believe for a second that they had it visible to be "kind" to webmasters...
For everyone complaining, I bet 99% of you guy still have your spybars (toolbars) installed. Stop complaining and start taking action... Uninstall your toolbars.... Tell your users that it is spyware.. Remove your adsense ads.. Believe me it can be done. My profits are up since doing this due to the fact I had to learn how to increase affiliate ROI. Basically, stop complaining and take action.
I have started taking action. I took a risk of loosing many thousands of dollars a week removing their ads.. I started this when they cut my cpc 75%.. under the ruse of "smart pricing"... There is no way my site fits this as it is above the commision junction conversion averages..
Anyways, stop complaining and start taking action.. Before you post your complaint make sure your spybar is uninstalled.. otherwise your posts will just be noise.. and google will continue... due to all of you that are upset but are unwilling to take action. Google is just laughing saying they are complaining but are lining up to bring up our bottom line.
[/ON SOAP BOX]
joined:Oct 27, 2001
Perhaps human edited directories like DMOZ do/can/might return better results
For the most part, human-edited directories like DMOZ and spidered search engines like Google serve entirely different purposes: Directories index sites, and search engines index pages. It's like the difference between a library's directory of the magazines in its collection and The Magazine Index or the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature.
If you're looking for a site about Elbonian travel, you might use a directory. But if you're looking for an article about mud kayaking in Elbonia, you need a search engine like Google. That's why human-edited directories can't be a substitute for spidered search.
joined:May 1, 2004
Some people need a reality check and should remember never to put all those eggs in one basket.
Who cares about pagerank! Maybe people should get out more (after all it is the holiday weekend...).