Update Dominic - Part 2

[teeceo]

Continued from Part 1: [webmasterworld.com...]

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Thanks to google for letting us peek into there database( they could very easy close that door to us)and a thanks to googleguy for "DONATING" his time to answer question(that he don't have to) and for keeping thing here (somewhat) calm. Also, thanks to all that work so hard to keep this forum going strong(I for one don't know how I would get along without it:). I could go on and on but, thats all I will say. Later.

teeceo.

[rfgdxm1]

My guess is that whoever did this hadn't even considered that it was leaking out publicly. Not that anything leaked they needed to worry much about.

[teeceo]

Maybe, but last update we seen the same type on deal from -sj so, its good that we even see this at all. Do any of the other SE's show this? I don't think so becouse they don't do what google does with there updates.

teeceo.

[Jesse_Smith]

From what I've hurd, these changes are only from the freshbot, so the real update will probably be even bigger.

[GoogleGuy]

As far as my part goes, happy to help, teeceo.. :) There's also a lot of moderators doing a lot of work to make sure this is a good community. And then there's Brett, of course. :)

[Jesse_Smith]

Now if only it showed what the next update would look like!

[spacewar]

>>Thanks to google for letting us peek into there database( they could very easy close that door to us)and a thanks to googleguy for "DONATING" his time to answer question(that he don't have to) and for keeping thing here (somewhat) calm. Also, thanks to all that work so hard to keep this forum going strong(I for one don't know how I would get along without it:). I could go on and on but, thats all I will say. Later.<<

Were you being sarcastic in that post?!
I didn't see any 'calming' info from googleguy

[rfgdxm1]

Yeah, GG hasn't done much to allay fears. I have fallen from #4 to #13 on the most critical SERP on sj. Given that one of the results on page 1 is a totally irrelevant site, and is thus a garbage result, I am hoping this is just some sort of testing server. Others have commented that sj has a lot of bad results, so this makes some sense. However, there is the fear that Google actually likes these SERPs.

[mfishy]

It is unbelievable to me that Google is actually letting these results out onto www even for a brief moment. Have they lost all quality control over there?

Besides the fact that some of the results are complete irrelevant nonsense, the data, in some cases is months old.

They are certainly rewarding the banned spammers that are now in SJ by sending them traffic from the live .com

If they are testing a new algo over there it must not consider Page Rank, Link Pop, Title, Relevant Content....

[needinfo]

Would it be so difficult and/or wrong for GG to simply say yes it is the start of the update or no it's not, especially considering how much everybody's been stressed over the past few days.

[WebMistress]

Are you all suggesting that the sj data center is a preview of the update...I don't think it is...it may have the most recent caches, but the links are way way off....I am getting different results for www, www2, and www3, sometimes www being very old....but sj is way off base. Any ideas on this?

[spacewar]

no one has a clue, and google dont give a damn about your website or where it ranks, they are too big and important to care what trouble they cause you.

[rfgdxm1]

>It is unbelievable to me that Google is actually letting these results out onto www even for a brief moment. Have they lost all quality control over there?

Are the SERPs really that craptastic across the board? I must admit from one SERP I watch it is bizarre.

[skipfactor]

>>google dont give a damn

Well I've seen GoogleGuy address specific site problems. Stuff like, "I know you have a clean site, I'll look into it." Not to mention his spam work on individual reports.

Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen any smaller SE reps on the respective forums here tackling specific issues.

He said it may take a bit to track it down; maybe he's scratching his head too.

[Canary]

Honestly - overall I dont think they are too bizarre! - But I have not been at this game aslong as a lot of members on here

I dont think that Joe Surfer would have complaints about quality control - but it does seem to be a strange mix of new and old (and missing perhaps)

[nutsandbolts]

Yikes! I don't know any other search engine that gives people so many "second chances" like Google does. I really, REALLY think they do give a damn about the Webmasters.

GG has stuck around and has been incredibly helpful and responsive. Although, of course, without the fantastic members and mods on here none of this would be possible. :) Okay, so we're not getting any answers on the SJ thing, but I'm sure GG will trip the guy up tomorrow as he's walking along with Duck L'orange on his tray and make him spill the beans for us ;)

Sure, one of my sites has dropped totally off the planet with certain keywords on SJ, but until SJ is PERMANENTLY on the main index I'm not going to panic.... much..... shake...shake....quiver...wibble

[spacewar]

if they give a damn why the big algo change at the end of sept '02 without warning or explanation? that hurt a lot of hard working webmasters who had spent months or years improving their sites

[edited by: spacewar at 9:48 pm (utc) on May 4, 2003]

[markusf]

The less they share about the algo, the better they are at combatting spam. If they released the whole algo to the public do you for an instant believe you'd show up anywhere in the top 100 for your keywords?

[skipfactor]

>>why the big algo change at the end of sept '02 without warning or explanation?

Do you let your competitors know what your future plans are? No, you hit them with as much "element-of-surprise" as you can muster.

Read through a few recent update threads & you'll see a Google rep who does care about Webmasters.

[rfgdxm1]

>if they give a damn why the big algo change at the end of sept '02 without warning or explanation? that hurt a lot of hard working webmasters who had spent months or years improving their sites

BZZZZZZZZZT. Wrong. For every site that goes down in the SERPs, one moves up. The net satisfaction of webmasters with Google is a constant. Think. All those webmasters who hit #1 in the SERPs with that algo change liked it. The open question is what the surfers thought about the change? Their satisfaction isn't a constant. They can just quit using Google. Has Google's market share dropped like a rock since September?

[spacewar]

will mess a few peoples sites up if -sj is a new algo tho

[mfishy]

rfgdxm1

I am looking at a keyword that I compete in somewhat, though not my biggest but important.

sj results:

#1: Redirect
#2: Redirect
#3: Link with no description
#4: Decent result
#5: Previously banned site with hidden text
#6: Contact page for a PR 2 site (tripod homepage)
#7: The actual manufacturers site- Usually #1
#8: Link Directory PR 1 with over 200 links and no content
#9: Redirect
#10: Dead Link

I have also seen in other area many of the biggest spammers back in the game.

My most important keyowrd I rank #1 instead of #2 in Sj but it shows a bunch of backlinks that I lost months ago.

[teeceo]

I for one am "glad" to see whats going on at Sj, even if it makes no sence to us now. The fact is that google has been moving forward month by month with new and exciting things(I.E. freshbot) and most of us here get 90% of are traffic from google(yahoo through google slerps) so don't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm not worried about sj or the next update(even though I have about 50 new sites riding on good pr and slerp's) nope, what worries me is the next 6 month, what will the state of SEO be like when yahoo pulls out of google's results and starts there own thing. Lates time I checked, they didn't have a brake down of there algo(maybe becouse they fon't have one) You think its bad now, wait till next year when MSN tries to buy "any and everyone out" so they can domante, its going to get real ugly soon so stop cring about google's(not telling us the exacate date of each months dance, or whats there doing on sj, or why won't they just tell us the algo so we can "master it" or should I say "spam it to death" and start getting as many sites in as you can before things start to change so much that if you don't have a presents in google already then its to late. Later.

teeceo.

P.S. "google doesn't care about its webmasters" I guess thats why they let gg come in here and answer some of are questions and if i'm not mistaken, didn't they go to the boston tea party a week ago? Also, where is yahooguy, inkguy, msnguy, askguy, overtureguy, or even(gulp)dmozguy? Yea, I haven't hearnd of them either, thats my point. Late thing, thank god for google,googlebots and even you googleguy:).

[g1smd]

Gakkk, not another sj thread ;-)

[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]

I think -sj is mainly old data, with newer data sprinkled in; and some spam algos switched off. It might be a way of checking that what they are doing on other servers is correct.

At the moment I'm more interested to see the wacky results on www that aren't the same as www2, www3, or www-ex, but neither are they from www-sj.

>> Also, where is ...., or even(gulp)dmozguy? Yea, I haven't heard of them either <<

Hmm, you won't hear from dmoz staff, all one of them; but you do frequently hear from at least a dozen metas and editalls, and a couple of dozen regular editors as well. However, none of those speak officially on behalf of the ODP.

[Stefan]

Late thing, thank god for google,googlebots and even you googleguy:).

Myself, I'm glad Yahoo will be using Ink results eventually, I hope Nutch amounts to something, and I wish all the SE's well. Google is a little too big for my liking, even though it's a very good SE and I do well in it.

edit: to limit the damage I might do when this gets read by the powers that be

[edited by: Stefan at 12:44 am (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[rfgdxm1]

If so mfishy, then problems may be worse than I thought.

[GoogleGuy]

I try to stop by and help when I can, but I can't answer every question someone asks. For example, "What's the secret to being #1 for all my keywords?" is not a question that I would try to answer. There are plenty of other members willing to offer opinions on that, anyway. :)

I sometimes have to skip on questions that go deeply into the internals of scoring and indexing. That shouldn't be a big surprise--I can give advice about how to structure sites and answer lots of questions, but it's not my place to talk too much about things that veer way into the "secret sauce." I wouldn't be surprised if several SJ-related questions fall into that category, at least for now. Does that make sense?

[spacewar]

so sj is secret sauce, ok thats clear then, thanks

[edited by: spacewar at 2:28 am (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[GoogleGuy]

Now you're getting it, spacewar.. :)

[edited by: GoogleGuy at 2:29 am (utc) on May 5, 2003]

[rfgdxm1]

If whatever is happening at sj part of the "secret sauce" GG, then why pray tell is Google even allowing this to be public?