Forum Moderators: open
Site Match delivers:
1. Higher quality search results for users, especially by reducing the amount of search spam (spammers are economically disincented to participate)
2. A clearer, more consistent way to interact with Yahoo! Search Technology for content providers who historically have been subjected to unpredictable changes in the way their content has been discovered and presented by search engines.
As we’ve said elsewhere, we think these benefits are of value to many businesses, and the considerable demand for the program we’ve seen thus far would seem to support that. However, the program may not be valuable to everyone. We understand this – not everyone wants or needs the value-added service that Site Match offers. And that’s OK, because it’s likely that we already have your web pages in the regular crawl, and if we don’t yet, then we are working on getting them in over time. Discovering and indexing all of the content on the internet for free is a cornerstone of our mission to provide the highest quality search experience on the internet.
Q. Will Yahoo! Search results favor sites that pay for the Site Match program?
A. Absolutely not. Payment is not for placement or ranking in search results. Our focus is on delivering the highest quality search experience on the web. As a result, all web pages are algorithmically ranked in the results based on their objective relevance to each specific search query in order to ensure the highest quality search experience for users.
Q. Will the Inktomi index be merged with the new Yahoo! index before Inktomi disappears?
A: Yes. Today there is a single, new Yahoo! Search Technology. This new search engine powers Yahoo! and will shortly also be powering the search solutions of all our partners. The search engines operated by the companies we acquired, including Inktomi, will no longer power our search results. Yahoo! Slurp, Yahoo!’s new crawler, is already reaching and indexing more of the web than any of our prior technologies did.
Q. If I participate in Site Match, will my site be “banned” from the search index?
A. No. The Site Match and crawling systems are separate (one doesn’t affect content in the other) and participation in Site Match does not result in changes to the index. For instance, if you submit 1 page to Site Match, other pages that may be in the regular index will not be affected.
However, content from both systems is reviewed and evaluated against the same criteria to ensure all content meets a consistent, high quality standard. If you joined the Inktomi Search Submit program, for example, you may have been reviewed. If problems were discovered, your site may have been partially or entirely removed from the search index. The same thing happens to sites that have been discovered through the free crawl process; if problems were discovered, your site may have been partially or entirely removed from the search index. Any review-related penalty is solely designed to ensure the best experience for our users, not to encourage ongoing participation in our inclusion programs.
For our new Site Match program, we’re considering providing content providers with a formal method way to appeal perceived penalties. Please stay tuned…
Q. Does Site Match require both a per-page, per-year fee and a cost-per-click?
A. Site Match has a much lower up-front cost (less than 1/3) than the 3 programs it replaces: Inktomi Search Submit, AltaVista Express Inclusion, and FAST PartnerSite PFI. One concern with the old programs was that some sites paid upfront and then got relatively few clicks (a common scenario for very specialist sites). This resulted in the service working out to be quite expensive on an effective cost-per-click basis. The new cost-per-click pricing is more equitable in that it scales with the value the program provides to each participating site. In addition, we offer a range of budgeting options that allow content providers to cap their spend at whatever levels they are comfortable with. Finally, and most importantly, cost-per-click pricing helps ensure a high quality user experience. Cost-per-click pricing motivates content providers to submit only relevant content (no one wants to pay for an irrelevant click), further improving the quality of the search experience for users. Without CPC pricing, content providers have no incentive to provide high quality content and avoid gaming the system.
Q. What concerns me with the new Yahoo! PFI system is a lack of geotargetting. With the current Inktomi PFI, if someone outside my intended area clicks on my page in the SERPs, I don't care - I pay no extra for that. It's just a free click. I currently receive about 15% of clicks from countries I don't do business in.
= Q. Does Site Match allow URLs to be targeted to specific countries?
A. Yes. In fact, Site Match does support geotargeting. Through the Overture-branded system, just log in (after subscribing) and go to View/Edit URLs. Click Edit for each URL and you’ll see options to target by region or by country. This is another feature that helps us deliver a higher quality user experience. In the example cite by this post, the user actually would have had a suboptimal experience – they clicked on the page of a business that couldn’t address their need. By offering geo-targeting we enable content providers help make both their experience and the experience of the user better. This is another example of how we are leveraging this program to help us deliver the highest quality user experience.
I think it's a good idea but that's a personal opinion. The key question becomes will paid PFI block you from the new Yahoo after April 15th.
I let as many paid url's expire from PT as I could back in September when I saw the problems developing. As one fellow who said he worked for these services for quite a few years said. Once they know you have paid they aren't going to let you back in without paying again. As time passed my expired url's corroborated what he mentioned. I also drew the same conclusion. That's no fixed rule though if you have hundreds of linked pages.
though don´t have any answers from my e-mail yet, so I do not know anything.
Really the best to do think is just go have a drink and forget all about it. I just have a small site, and anyway yahoo was only 10% of my visitors, just keep on working as always. Just put in free languages lessons for users to have great fun........ If I am happy and my users as well. I did everything I posible could, and they don´t accept me cant do anymore.
I am tired.
We must not be held hostage by a silly search engine. Just do what you ought to do and if you still can't get in, well, move on!
Yahoo is not the web....
No, it's not. 'and with all that's going on, it doesn't pay to put all or even half your eggs in one basket because of them.
My advice: Look out for MSN. I'll eat my hat if this ruthless giant doesn't come in like a Lion.
helenp, I'll join you if you're buying the drinks...errr, wait, since I'm not buying into this scheme, then I'll actually have money to spend. Why don't I buy?
outland88>> As one fellow who said he worked for these services for quite a few years said. Once they know you have paid they aren't going to let you back in without paying again.
Funny, this isn't the first time I'm hearing of this.
My mistake was being no seo, only an fool, joined Inktomi and when say I should pay, I closed the window.......... so maybe they still waits for my check.
Maybe my english is to bad, but didn´t understand from first page that it wasn´t for free, so I registered my self......... thats for being a fole, maybe? or not.
anyway don´t want to speak this anymore, join me having a bear, everybody pay their one bear,......... sorry,.I am not a big company....., hopefully next year invites you all for free :) lol
Yahoo.co.uk just switch to show same results as yahoo.com, ( or think diferent, anyway not google)
we are out...........
what an hangover I will get.
can´t copy, but oh my god, there are tons of spam sites in yahoo.co.uk on first page for my keywords.........titles with lots of words repeated, how ugly.
do you want sticky Tim?
sorry, can´t resist:
In particular I liked this, suposed I am an spammer:
Villas Spain Rentals Links Add URL - Marbella
Villas Spain Rentals Links Add URL - marbella ... Marbella Hotels featuring Hotels in Marbella Costa del Sol Spain including ... Marbella Hotels Spain ... do not receive commission from rentals, our site aims to effectively advertise ...
took away the url.........
add url................I wouldn´t dare do that
the hole first page are full of that stuff
[edited by: helenp at 12:56 am (utc) on Mar. 11, 2004]
I see now. 'just checked yahoo UK and yahoo Singapore which means that they're finally updating their worldwide versions.
Thus, we'll be seeing an influx of complaints from all around the world...hmmmm, the more the merrier.
gosh, sorry, can't buy the entire house a round of drinks I guess.
My advice: Look out for MSN. I'll eat my hat if this ruthless giant doesn't come in like a Lion.
Personally, I'm keeping more of an eye on Ask/Teoma.
If, as Tim has said and I understand correctly, that SiteMatch results are ranked the same as organics then I see sitematch as being a great opporunity - pay to get included (definitely), refine your sites/pages, pay for clicks, refine, pay refine, until in first page results or at top, then ditch SiteMatch.
New thought: It's effectively the same as utilising Google's Freshbot, only you have to pay. Hmmm.
just curious, did you mean that they'll be a force to be reckoned with?
or what I mentioned: coming out like a lion?
I do extremely well with Ask, and considering their purchase of Excite, I wonder what in fact that may mean....but only because the media is focusing on it so much...I'm left to wonder what other reasons there may be. Please enlighten me...and NO, I'm not trying to be smart here, just don't know is all. I never claimed to be a TOTALLY informed participant.
As for your mention of SiteMatch's opportunity to allow you to find your way......'good view! Yah, I see what you mean, but then I wonder how long it takes any penalised webmaster to take part in and refine what you've mentioned? A few months? A year? More?
If site match doesn't help pages rank any better, how will it reduce spam? I understand the economic benefits to Yahoo! and how websites will enjoy the benefits of more interaction/insider info, but just don't get how this makes the serps "better".
Y! replied to me that going the SiteMatch route is of no use if you are already penalized. You need to get the penalty lifted first.
I think Tim did say they are working on a scheme to let people get off the "black list". So let's wait for that.
If you are not penalized, it may look like a good way to get in with Sitematch -- if you have the financial firepower.
Yes he did. He made reference to some formal approach to allow webmasters to dispute penalisations but as far as I know he never mentioned that other mention of yours regarding how penalised folks should NOT consider Site Match.
but then as with many others, I suppose you're awfully and aggressively willing to take them at their word?
of course time will tell.
It may take up to four business days for your URLs to appear in the search index, as stated in the Yahoo! Service Level Agreement (SLA). Please keep in mind that this is business days and does not include weekends / holidays. We are working closely with our reseller partners to ensure that this commitment is met and that we are providing the highest level of customer service to our customers. If it has been longer than four business days since you have submitted your URLs, or you are having any other problems, please contact your reseller or send an email to sitematch@overture.com.
We've been playing the SE game for 5 years, we've done the doorway pages, the cloaking, the link farms, the redirects and have read every article about SEO under the sun. We've also played every game with every SE and spend about $100 000.00 with them incl. Yahoo! directory, Looksmart PPC, Overture and friends, AdWords, Google sponsored listing, paid inclusion... did I forget any?
5 years on and we are still getting about the same amount of traffic, the same amount of sales and more or less the same SE rankings across the board. Even after the Florida update our rank for the main key word went from 23 to 100+ to 13 today, without changing anything to our site.
My point is: The SE's job is to deliver relevant quality content to the searchers. We have a quality website that is easy to navigate and we deliver a good service to our customers, if SEs can't see that, it's not my problem, and if they want to get paid to display search results, then they will always have to compromise on quality. Yahoo! can create as much hype as they want, but it will be the users that will decide what SE will deliver the results that they need and they don't care how much you paid to get listed.
I believe that Yahoo! with this new PPC scam with follow the footsteps of Looksmart, down the cyber drain.
The verdict: concentrate on your webpage and your customers and don't worry about the ever changing world of SEs, after all, if you'd have a brick and mortar business, would you pay someone to hunt down passers by and drag them into your shop, or would you focus your attention on making potential customers welcome and comfortable?
No, Tim did not say anything about SiteMatch and penalties.
I emailed Y! on my perceived penalty and they confirmed it. They then say SiteMatch will not lift the penalty for me.
You see, I already have pages indexed in Y! but they are not showing in the SERPS. Sitematch is useless in this sense because of the penalty.
Hope this clears things up.
Y! replied to me that going the SiteMatch route is of no use if you are already penalized. You need to get the penalty lifted first.
eyeinthesky, I'm not sure why you came back at me with that, I hadn't mentioned anything about penalties? I appreciate this aspect though and your situation.
Cyberfyber, I have no factual evidence to suggest Teoma's future growth. I love their concept and results. Their latest moves suggest they've got something up their sleeve and are actively seeking to increase their market share. Just as Yahoo pulled its rabbit out of the hat (own index) I'm willing to specualate that Teoma will do the same. But this is all going OT, so please Sticky me or I'll continue in the appropriate forum.
YahooTeam, welcome, though I suspect it is Tim hiding under a new name? Why not YahooGuy? or Yahooligan? (kidding)
Just what is going to happen to your directory?
That's about the conclusion I'm coming to from all this ruckus about Yahoo. Thanks for coming out and saying it. Forget the SE's. Do your job: work on your site. Let them do theirs.
"What is the migration path for an existing Inktomi/FAST PFI client, with 3 - 6 months still to run, with $10k already invested in your legacy programs - who wants to be in the new Yahoo?"
Is it:
a- Pay us again for what you have already paid for already (ie FAST, Inktomi etc - and you'll get Yahoo! as well!) - oh - and pay us per click as well please; or
b- Just use the Yahoo! free inclusion program (and thanks for all the INK/FAST money!) until the legacy programs run out. And when they run out - then - because you know the value of PFI - you can start to pay us again under the new Yahoo! program - (and this time make the cheques out to Yahoo! please)?
c- some other answer which respects that clients who are already paying for several of your PFI programs would probably expect their current URLS included in Yahoo until their existing subscription runs out - for a nominal increased fee?
Right now - Yahoo! seems to be indicating the answer is the 'clients choice' between a. and b.
So can you please confirm whether you have an option c. Tim? - or are we just expecting too much 'customer service' in anticipating that Yahoo! will offer loyal customers a migration path to the new program?
Seriously.
For your sake, I hope you get a good response. I'd hate to think Y! was heading down the same path of cloaks and daggers that L$ was playing in their transition.
A one/two month 'trial' or 'grace' period just doesn't cut it when this amount of money is involved and they own all the companies involved.
I'd like to direct the same questions to Tim also.
I would just like to know for some certainty that when my grace period runs out that my sites will still remain in the Yahoo index if either they have been crawled naturally by Yahoo! Slurp or by me using the free add URL link.
We spent over $7500 to be included in Inktomi and although nobody ever stated that Ink results would be used at the new Yahoo as far as I'm concerned it was implied.
More importantly than that I really would be pi**ed off if my Ink PFI urls had an adverse effect on my sites being in the new Yahoo when the grace period runs out.
Plus you might get dumped from yahoo index after spending your PPC budget.
Unfortunately, they ported all the bogus PFI penalties over from Inktomi, but they are dropping the PFI paying customers from the results. That's a little questionable if you ask me.
What ever happened to the Yahoo reps in this thread? I don't mind the whole idea of Search Submit. But... come on, it's not really fair to poke your head in and do your marketing... and then disappear when the tough questions are asked. Why are Inktomi penalties still applied if Yahoo is a new search engine? And why are legitimate PFI sites/pages that were unfairly banned from Inktomi, still banned from Yahoo?
There is actually some evidence that signing up for Search Submit will subject your site to an automated filter and can get your site banned for life. This question has not been answered by the Yahoo reps here in this forum yet, but there is quite a bit of evidence for this.
There is actually some evidence that signing up for Search Submit will subject your site to an automated filter and can get your site banned for life. This question has not been answered by the Yahoo reps here in this forum yet, but there is quite a bit of evidence for this.
This statement has no basis in fact whatsoever.
Y! needed to start fresh.
Actually, it does.
1. Yahoo is using Inktomi technology to power the new Yahoo search.
2. Yahoo is using Inktomi technology to power Site Match (it's been changed a little , but it's virtually the same system).
3. PFI sites in Intomi were subject to a special filter (not applied to organic pages). There are several threads around the web detailing this exact problem and documenting evidence of it. Inktomi PFI got many sites banned. It appears that several sites were penalized when they should not have been.
- We have no reason to believe that Yahoo Site Match will be any different. The PFI pages that were banned in Inktomi are still banned.
This statement has no basis in fact whatsoever.
I must respectfully disagree with your statement. It happened to us ONLY on sites we paid Ink to spider. (about $2500 worth of business) When we didn't renew, ALL pages from those domains disappeared forever. All other sites that DID NOT participate in their program continue to be listed with no penalty. These other sites were written in the same format.
Just seems to be too much of a coincidence for me and hundreds of other webmasters.
More Answers to Members Question from Yahoo!
More answers will be posted shortly!
It's been almost a week!
will they? That's another story.
