Forum Moderators: open
Site Match delivers:
1. Higher quality search results for users, especially by reducing the amount of search spam (spammers are economically disincented to participate)
2. A clearer, more consistent way to interact with Yahoo! Search Technology for content providers who historically have been subjected to unpredictable changes in the way their content has been discovered and presented by search engines.
As we’ve said elsewhere, we think these benefits are of value to many businesses, and the considerable demand for the program we’ve seen thus far would seem to support that. However, the program may not be valuable to everyone. We understand this – not everyone wants or needs the value-added service that Site Match offers. And that’s OK, because it’s likely that we already have your web pages in the regular crawl, and if we don’t yet, then we are working on getting them in over time. Discovering and indexing all of the content on the internet for free is a cornerstone of our mission to provide the highest quality search experience on the internet.
Q. Will Yahoo! Search results favor sites that pay for the Site Match program?
A. Absolutely not. Payment is not for placement or ranking in search results. Our focus is on delivering the highest quality search experience on the web. As a result, all web pages are algorithmically ranked in the results based on their objective relevance to each specific search query in order to ensure the highest quality search experience for users.
Q. Will the Inktomi index be merged with the new Yahoo! index before Inktomi disappears?
A: Yes. Today there is a single, new Yahoo! Search Technology. This new search engine powers Yahoo! and will shortly also be powering the search solutions of all our partners. The search engines operated by the companies we acquired, including Inktomi, will no longer power our search results. Yahoo! Slurp, Yahoo!’s new crawler, is already reaching and indexing more of the web than any of our prior technologies did.
Q. If I participate in Site Match, will my site be “banned” from the search index?
A. No. The Site Match and crawling systems are separate (one doesn’t affect content in the other) and participation in Site Match does not result in changes to the index. For instance, if you submit 1 page to Site Match, other pages that may be in the regular index will not be affected.
However, content from both systems is reviewed and evaluated against the same criteria to ensure all content meets a consistent, high quality standard. If you joined the Inktomi Search Submit program, for example, you may have been reviewed. If problems were discovered, your site may have been partially or entirely removed from the search index. The same thing happens to sites that have been discovered through the free crawl process; if problems were discovered, your site may have been partially or entirely removed from the search index. Any review-related penalty is solely designed to ensure the best experience for our users, not to encourage ongoing participation in our inclusion programs.
For our new Site Match program, we’re considering providing content providers with a formal method way to appeal perceived penalties. Please stay tuned…
Q. Does Site Match require both a per-page, per-year fee and a cost-per-click?
A. Site Match has a much lower up-front cost (less than 1/3) than the 3 programs it replaces: Inktomi Search Submit, AltaVista Express Inclusion, and FAST PartnerSite PFI. One concern with the old programs was that some sites paid upfront and then got relatively few clicks (a common scenario for very specialist sites). This resulted in the service working out to be quite expensive on an effective cost-per-click basis. The new cost-per-click pricing is more equitable in that it scales with the value the program provides to each participating site. In addition, we offer a range of budgeting options that allow content providers to cap their spend at whatever levels they are comfortable with. Finally, and most importantly, cost-per-click pricing helps ensure a high quality user experience. Cost-per-click pricing motivates content providers to submit only relevant content (no one wants to pay for an irrelevant click), further improving the quality of the search experience for users. Without CPC pricing, content providers have no incentive to provide high quality content and avoid gaming the system.
Q. What concerns me with the new Yahoo! PFI system is a lack of geotargetting. With the current Inktomi PFI, if someone outside my intended area clicks on my page in the SERPs, I don't care - I pay no extra for that. It's just a free click. I currently receive about 15% of clicks from countries I don't do business in.
= Q. Does Site Match allow URLs to be targeted to specific countries?
A. Yes. In fact, Site Match does support geotargeting. Through the Overture-branded system, just log in (after subscribing) and go to View/Edit URLs. Click Edit for each URL and you’ll see options to target by region or by country. This is another feature that helps us deliver a higher quality user experience. In the example cite by this post, the user actually would have had a suboptimal experience – they clicked on the page of a business that couldn’t address their need. By offering geo-targeting we enable content providers help make both their experience and the experience of the user better. This is another example of how we are leveraging this program to help us deliver the highest quality user experience.
Once URLs are submitted to Site Match it can take up to 4 business days for those URLs to appear in the Yahoo! Search index. Please keep in mind that it is 4 business days, not counting weekends and holidays. This Service Level Agreement (SLA) is the same for all Site Match resellers.
Unfortunately on some of our Partners' web sites and in some email communications, it was incorrectly stated that URLs would appear within 72 hours. Yahoo! is working to correct this and we apologize for the mistake.
>This statement has no basis in fact whatsoever. <
I should clarify. I made the above statement in regards to site match, not the old INK PFI program. I have no doubt that something funky was going on with some PFI pages within that program.
My point is that that this program is so new, that it is foolish to rush to judgement when the facts have yet to present themselves.
Having said that, unless a page was as clean as a whistle, I wouldn't put it up for human review, which is what you are doing when you sign up to site match.
<added>
Hmmmm, after reading this thread [webmasterworld.com] I think I may have to change my mind.
</added>
By using Inktomi as the technology of choice it looks like Yahoo has ported over all of the negative karma that Inktomi built up over the years.
Here's the million dollar question that I think needs to be answered. If Yahoo is a "new" engine, then why are you keeping the INK PFI penalties, but not keeping any of the INK PFI paid pages. Seems like a double standard unless there is something we are all missing here.
Once URLs are submitted to Site Match it can take up to 4 business days for those URLs to appear in the Yahoo! Search index. Please keep in mind that it is 4 business days, not counting weekends and holidays.
I'm hoping someone here will be brave enough to try this out and report back to us on how it's working for them. We just can't justify spending more money until we're sure our pages will be listed and not punished later on if we decide to stop using the program.
Looks like you may have gotten hit with the Yahoo (was Inktomi) PFI penalization. Here's what happens...you pay them for inclusion, and then as soon as you do, they put a filter on your pages and your site won't show up for any terms except if you do a search for the exact url. Support has no clue what to do because they don't even know that the penalty had been placed.
Truly, I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I don't know for sure that this is truly the explanation, but it appears that it has all the workings of the Inktomi PFI ban. I have not been hit by this bug, but I'm seeing reports of it around the web...
I refuse to use site match for any of my clients until Yahoo comes clean on this issue and resolves the bug.
OH How good cuestion,
They are ab****ely legal about don´t using INK PFI paid pages, actually Yo PFI,s ever paid for yahoo, you paid for Inktomi and partners,
but why keep the penalties?
Yahoo search is brand new for some and old pain for others?
How many times do they have to answer this one before you stop asking? Eight? Seventeen? A jillion?
Tim opened this thread on the 8th - called it
More Answers to Members Question from Yahoo!
Again - no answers to my question about an existing client migration strategy - so I'll just take the hint and advise clients accordingly.........
One last issue Tim - did you used to work at Inktomi? Is that why there is so much concern about potentially being excluded from Yahoo! PFI/PPC once you stop paying? Many members posts indicate that they had encountered this issue previously with Inktomi - is that why there is such concern about this potential aspect with Yahoo! Tim? - because you were in charge at Inktomi previously?
Just curious. But that would certainly explain the concern over potential exclusion!
Running a business / division on threat and innuendo only undermines your credibility to the point that none of the things you say are taken seriously.
I just said make sure it doesn't happen. It's different from them saying it doesn't or will not happen. Also, I didn't assume that it will happen.
.
Those fellows were just in here pitching a pre-launch sales campaign.
And isn't site promotion against the WW TOS?
Time to close this thread off.
seasalt
Yahoo Team is a new WebmasterWorld member from Yahoo. Yahoo Team will be here to answer your questions on an ongoing basis. I will still be taking part in the WebmasterWorld community (as Tim) in the future but Yahoo Team will be here to answer your Yahoo! questions in a timely manner.
[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 10:08 pm (utc) on Mar. 15, 2004]
Don't you have any lists of whose penalized already?
Or a concise explanation of why the already questionable Inktomi PFI penalty has migrated over to a supposedly new search engine?
seasalt
[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 10:07 pm (utc) on Mar. 15, 2004]
Outland,
When you refer to "dont you have a list"? What are you proposing? Just trying to make sure I am clear so I can respond.
Tim
Tim,
he's saying (I think) to start fresh. New search engine so start fresh. Those "penalties" legitimate or not, are still years old and many more questionable sites are making it into Y!'s top ten. If you go through each line of HTML 95% of sites currently indexed would be left out if they got reviewed. Let the algo and the users decide.
There was a mod's yoga site penalized for linking to other locations of the his yoga classes. They have their own sites, so why not link? If you wan to leave a site out, you can find almost any excuse. Of course, you don't to have even have one, I'm just saying.
On edit: we are losing money that's why we may seem a little testy. Nothing personal I hope.
[edited by: walkman at 5:23 am (utc) on Mar. 14, 2004]
as an addendum, does Yahoo want to be considered as one of the many culprits who is making this country or rather this world what it's quickly becoming? A Land, An Earth wherein bad service rules? A place wherein the complaints of the many go unanswered.
If so, remember, you're dealing with a huge number of sources that have a huge reach combined. Such things have been known to ruin and destroy the biggest of companies.
I can see it now, one day the heads of Yahoo may very well be looking out their window and thinking silently: "My God,........they're organizing"
Such are the things that movements are made of.
'and mind you, Yahoo is only one name out of the Millions out there. Millions who have a say with or without you.
'can you imagine a Million voices telling the people not to go to Yahoo but to go elsewhere?
If so, remember, you're dealing with a huge number of sources that have a huge reach combined. Such things have been known to ruin and destroy the biggest of companies.
I can see it now, one day the heads of Yahoo may very well be looking out their window and thinking silently: "My God,........they're organizing"
Such are the things that movements are made of.
'and mind you, Yahoo is only one name out of the Millions out there. Millions who have a say with or without you.
'can you imagine a Million voices telling the people not to go to Yahoo but to go elsewhere? "
Well said. I belong to a forum for YSTORE owners who have been clamoring for answers and help for all the things going wrong with their stores - small business owners like myself who have invested everything they had to make a go of it. NEVER do they receive an answer. 90% of them feel that Yahoo no longer views them as an asset - and that they are being hung out to dry. Just my 2 cents.
BTW, Cyberfiber I think you are getting a little carried away there. Lets try to stick to talking about search and have a constructive dialogue.
Yes, well, perhaps somehow Yahoo will realize the possible repercussions of their actions or rather the lack thereof.
We all have huge power. Remember that!
Combined, we can make a difference. A huge one at that! I've got at least a hundred under my wing who'd listen to me. I'm not the only one. You all have many more. Listen to me.
Governments have been brought down due to such actions. But Yahoo is much less.
It's just another company. Nothing illegal about spreading the word as to how you feel and your reasoning. It's a publicly traded company. Can you imagine the hurt? The loss of money? Imagine.....
Tim, you’re shocking me. You must have a lot on your mind.
Back in September 2003 Inktomi begin assessing a lot of bogus penalties on PFI sites. About the only place a site showed up was with a domain search. The resellers argue you are in the Ink engines but the sites never show up in keyword searchs. Even using the title of a site.
It’s a penalty of some sort apparently targeting mainly Inktomi PFI sites. A lot of people have found they are excluded but the resellers give you differing reasons as to why. Another words they don’t know and don’t care. Inktomi itself would never respond to the problem.
What Seasalt is referring to is the Inktomi penalty migrated to the supposedly new Yahoo. When people see the same old Inktomi results and penalty thats a valid arguement. Inktomi/Yahoo is now cutting a pretty wide swath of damage for Ink PFI customers especially in MSN. Lord knows the damage if it migrates to ATW and AV.
It sounds like you’re mainly familiar with your new Site Match program not the Ink PFI programs and problems. That being the case the situation is only going to get worst for the penalized sites. It’s a classic case of the resellers now pointing to Yahoo and Yahoo pointing back at the previous Ink resellers.
One reseller’s support told me to contact 16 major search engines and ask them to remove my listing and that would correct the Ink penalty. Some of the other suggested fixes were even more laughable.
Yeah, sign me up for another screwball support person to find something wrong. I imagine something can be found. Personally I’ve heard enough over the months to realize that Inktomi never kept records of what it was penalizing or why.
but ask most folks here and they'd probably beg to differ
I don't, so don't speak for me.
Constructive dialogue rather than 'slagging off' will keep Yahoo reps coming back to discuss in this forum
>>>>>Constructive dialogue<<<<<<<<
Funny, I thought that's what folks here were doing with no responses at all?
[edited by: cyberfyber at 6:24 am (utc) on Mar. 14, 2004]
well, thank you. We are biased of course, but the truth lies somewhere in between what we say, what's right, and you guys think. By the way, I am checking Y!'s home page...and I see the name Yahoo mentioned a few times too many ;). Trying to fool Google, huh? Not to mention the affiliate /adverts and links to countless sub-domains. Just joking of course. Ok, maybe half joking.
Personally, as long as the site is NOT misleading (irrelevant keywords, titles, cloaking), doesn't have 10-15 keywords in one line that don't make gramatical sense I would leave it. If they try to dupe you, you leave the younger one out like Google does.
Right now many are forced to get other domains just for Y!. Your SERPS aren't any better. It's the same exact content and you're getting potential /current customers upset. One person doesn't spend his $100 budget a month on overture (chooses Adwords instead), another $400, another $10,000 and all of the sudden you're talking real money. You can't make everyone happy, and you have to draw the line but it is a balancing act.
Just venting...that's all. I personally gave up on this a few days ago. I started loooking for google SEO to make up for this and can't wait till MSN brings me it's 25% or so share. They're indexing like crazy.
