Update Florida - Nov 2003 Google Update Part 2

[GoogleGuy]

Continued from part 1: [webmasterworld.com...]

---

I stopped by several times yesterday, but it seemed like people were into the analysis stage already. caveman, this update didn't add any penalties for hyphenated domains, so that's not a factor. Just a reminder that people with specific feedback (good or bad) can send it to webmaster [at] google.com with the keyword "floridaupdate" somewhere in the email. I've mentioned that a few times, but as more than one person has pointed out, it can take 2-3 hours to read the whole thread from beginning to end. :)

[shrirch]

IF GREATER THAN X number of similar anchor text links blocks reach Page A, THEN Penalize page A's relevancy for only that block of anchor text...

Unless that text is the domain name. Dmoz, Yahoo and a most of the authority hubs style their links with <a href=domain.com>domain.com</a> type links.

Does this mean that <a href=keyword-keywork2.com>keyword-keyword2.com</a> is ok? :)

[BradBristol]

Playing devils advocate,

IF GREATER THAN X number of similar anchor text links blocks reach Page A, THEN Penalize page A's relevancy for only that block of anchor text

This type of penalty would seem to defeat the whole system of anchor text and so called local rank that google has been building up for some time.

As for myself, the most highly targeted keywords are the ones I have made the most gains in, so far.

[GoogleGuy]

"Maybe you'll just deny some of the conspiracies. We trust you if you say its not the case."

I deny the conspiracies. It's not the case. ;) Seriously though, Google got to be where it is partly because we try our best to return the best sites to our users. We haven't stopped that tradition, and I hope we never do. Any short-term revenue from purposefully hurting our quality would ultimately do more long-term harm to Google (and its users) instead. I can say with complete confidence from my experience here that Google takes the long-term view about maintaining its quality. When we see ways that we believe we can improve our quality, we test it out a lot and then introduce those changes.

I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now. After any change, some people are going to be happy and some people aren't. We take feedback seriously (that's why I mentioned writing to webmaster [at] google.com with specific comments using the keyword "floridaupdate" several times on this topic already), but it's a fact of life that only a few urls can be on the front page, and if one site replaces another then someone won't like the results and someone will.

[keyword1dashkeyword2]

x

[edited by: keyword1dashkeyword2 at 8:38 am (utc) on Nov. 19, 2003]

[BradBristol]

I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now.

GG Thanks for answering my question, even if it was a little round about... ;)

[lbobke]

I assume people who are affected by this have practiced cross-linking techniques with similar keyword combos (which are now lost in the index) and have at least 500 or more backlinks resulting from cross-linking.

keyword1dashkeyword2,

if this turnes out to be the truth, I guess some heavily crosslinked pages would soon start shedding low PR link partners.
Instead of only shying away from from PR-less possible "bad neighbourhoods", now you would be looking for a minimum PR.
I don't think this is what G intends.
Personally, I'll just continue to look for sites that offer good content and may be of interest to my visitors, - regardless of PR.
I guess sites with links to and from other high-quality, on-topic pages should be doing fine in the long run.
And in the worst case, you always have the direct traffic from your partner sites.

Just my two cents,

Laurenz

[Powdork]

anyone who has dropped significant who does not meet these criteria care to dispute?

Part yes part no. My site has dropped every major switch/update since May, each time for two to three days. Each time from a top four position to nowhere, but still indexed. However, according to ATW I have 84 backlinks, and no crosslinking to speak of. The most any one site links to me is 13 times, none of which are reciprocated, and not all to the home page. Two other sites link to me twice, one is reciprocated, the other is Yahoo. I have added new quality links which are showing up as backlinks, but sadly, they used my site's title as anchor text. To avoid these weekends off in the future, I am going to simply ask folks to link to my wedding site with <Micro$oft Sux> as the anchor. That should take care of it.

I would also like to announce that I am now selling off topic text links, no, better yet, randomized text links.;)

Thirteen minutes left until 'tomorrow' is over at the Googleplex

[HayMeadows]

I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now.

I'd expect a tougher time fighting spam next year.

[rise2it]

Now that this 2 part thread totals 1300+ messages, just curious if it sets a new webmasterworld record?

[astounded]

Googleguy,

Is doing internal linking using keywords on each page of a site with hundreds of pages wrong? I am not trying to fool anyone. I thought I was making the main subject matter more apparent to visitors and search engines by using the main keywords in the internal links. My sites have practically no outgoing links. They do have lots and lots of information, but their main subject is not really coming up in the results anymore. Should I change the internal link anchor text for some of the internal links? Or just sit tight?

[steveb]

"Teenage Bozo or SEO"

<joke>

Or?

</joke>

[steveb]

I hope people who see those redirect results send them into Google via feedback like Google Guy suggests. One bedrock thing we should all want is if www.site.com is listed in the results that when you click on that link you go to www.site.com not redirected to some affiliate-tagged parent site. That stuff must be a top priority to stop. For one of my search terms one spammer has results 16-35, all right in a row, all obviously having the exact same algorithm mix, all nothing but redirects to *different* affiliate parents but with the same affiliate identifying tag.

But this is the first time these "sites" have appeared, and I'd like to have some faith that GG and Google will work on dealing with such trash, both specifically and algorithmically.

[GoogleGuy]

astounded, I can't give much in the way of advice about "the best" way to do SEO, but lots of good sites do internal linking using either of the ways you mention and still do fine. Heading to bed (midnight my time), but I'll check in again tomorrow.

[BradBristol]

keyword1dashkeyword2, you make some good valid points.
But I will have to wait a week or two before I agree or disagree with your theory.

I personally think Google is having some problems at the moment and this will make any theory difficult to prove or disprove until all those googlies get things corrected.

BTW I wear a blue and tan hat with a little red most of the time ;-)

[hawk]

http://www-ex.google.com
http://www-gv.google.com
http://www-dc.google.com
http://www-ab.google.com
http://www-in.google.com
http://www-zu.google.com
http://www-cw.google.com
http://www-fi.google.com
http://www3.google.com

This particular one shows more backward links:

http://www-va.google.com

Would this be duplicated to all servers. I hope so :)

[lasko]

I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now. After any change, some people are going to be happy and some people aren't.

Are you serious?

- va has updated backlinks the rest still have old data.?

- each datacenter is returning different amounts of results from 80,000 to 200,000?

- PR has not been completely updated only through certain datacenter(s)

- PR for 1 site has gone up from 4 to 5 but has dropped to its worst position since the site was luanched over 2 years ago.

----------

Now maybe, when you say "I think most" do we take this as you don't really know and also it could take another day to appear in the datacenters?

I also start to feel quite insulted by your comments that you class some of us as black hats etc when many sites are of perfect quality with no spamming techniques.

Many of us here have followed your comments and acted responsible in the construction of good content based web sites, well structured for users and search engines. Many months of hard work has gone in to build these sites, including a lot of investment of money, time and programming.

Too say that some will be happy and some won't by being replaced at the top, this I don't mind, its understandable, I wasn't even first for my keywords. However its the fact the PR has gone up so much and yet the site has been bombed.

We have not been banned nor has the pages been penalized hence the good PR of all the pages, so my only guess is that this update is either not finished or has been over done.

GoogleGuy I will write to you soon, but I am responsible enough to wait for the update to finish before jumping in, if nothing changes I will write.

For now I suggest we all still need to wait another 24-48 hours.

[Powdork]

but it's a fact of life that only a few urls can be on the front page, and if one site replaces another then someone won't like the results and someone will.

True, but we aren't griping about not being on the front page. That, at least would be understandable. We are talkng about burying authority sites on subjects behind irrelevant trash. We are talking about the official organisations for subjects not being returned in the results. Not just 'not on the front page', but not at all.

The official organisation for the search phrase I am talking about has been at #1 for the last two and a half years at least. I have been #2-5 for at least six months. I am now at 178 and they (.org) can't be found at all. Neither site wears a hat. So if what was completely relevant Thursday is now no longer relevant at all, we must question the ability of the new algo (or the old one) to determine relevancy. At this point I must say I no longer trust Google. When someone has a question and we can't find the answer I will probably still go to G for now, but when I view the results there will be doubt where there wasn't before.

When we see ways that we believe we can improve our quality, we test it out a lot and then introduce those changes.

I wish I knew which secret datacenter you guys were looking at, cuz it can't be the same thing I'm looking at. Have you all run ad-aware or anything lately. Maybe someone has messed with your hosts files and you're really seeing ATW results when you search Google.;)

[lasko]

Nice comments Powdork

I will second that.

We don't complain we are not first just that sites have been dropped to 100-500 for no particular reason.

The shift in Googles idea of what is relevent and what is not scares me.

Maybe you are all looking at -sj the one we can't see perhaps thats the one has been updated? I hope so.....

[gosman]

Looks like GG is the only one round here who can sleep.

;-)

[lasko]

Looks like GG is the only one round here who can sleep.

Here in Euroland we are still waking up to the nightmare :(

Hmmm perhaps I should go back and work for a big company again and not have to worry so much as you do when your just a small fish in the Atlantic :)

[amazed]

for what I am checking something completeley different seems to be going on on -mc and I can't find what I see on www in any of the known datacenter....

Well I suppose I had better stopped checking :-))

[lasko]

Amazed

You got it.

Big movements in deed an extra 5 links on this then -VA

Results are different not too sure yet any good but are different.

[gosman]

Amazed.

I show no backlinks on -mc

[Dave_Hawley]

Maybe if you guys didn't check the results every five minutes you will live longer. If some of you spent the same time and effort posting content for your sites, as you have posting comments here, you would have another 100 pages for Google to swallow.

The best advise I have ever got is this:

Build your site with ONLY customers in mind. Forget all about SEO tips and tricks, most are pure speculation and do NOTHING to enhance the customers experience. Add linked content each day that compliments your site.

Simple, non-stressful and it works better than anything else.

Dave

[edited by: Dave_Hawley at 8:55 am (utc) on Nov. 19, 2003]

[lasko]

Thats what I have done, but its no good if don't have visitors to use it :)

[soapystar]

i think you guys must remember the experience when the first big bang came in, googleguy implied in the same mannor as now that they were happy with the results, that the results were fine, that some people always moan, and still within weeks the serps returned to expected, the sites that had fallen returned, now can he have it both ways? Either when they returned the serps were worse or when they fell and he said the serps were fine then quite simply they werent, despite the comment that they were. Can it have been fine at the time when the sites that fell were the same sites that came back? I think googleguy is much like the bible, you must interpret to get the real facts, if you dont you arent really reading what he is saying.

[nutsandbolts]

GoogleGuy: I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now

Can you fold in the allinanchor data please? :)

I think many people, GoogleGuy, have experienced a massive site drop - to the point of total disappearance for their index page on a select bunch of keywords. But that's the problem. Nobody can say they "deserve" to be there for those keywords - so would anyone listen at the plex?

[lbobke]

soapystar,

I don't think that Google is very much interested in the fate of individual sites. As long as there are more relevant sites in the top 10 or 20 results than in the other search engines that's presumably fine with them.

Laurenz

[needinfo]

For "search engine" search Google showing very low down in SERPS on -mc, 2nd on -ab and 4th on others.

[napoleon bona part 2]

Hi everyone!

I observed somehing and would like to know your thoughts.For
some of my keywords there are some sites which either haven't
been afected at all or have appeared in serps out of the blue.
Most of these sites have links coming from thematically similar
websites or pages. I mean, for an instance, the sites at top
for hosting related keywords have links from hosting related
sites or the links pages have the keywords (hosting etc.) in
the title. Any thoughts?

[edited by: napoleon_bona_part_2 at 9:30 am (utc) on Nov. 19, 2003]

[mayor]

Googlebot now deep crawling a couple new sites ... do I hear the fat lady singing?

[Jessica]

so, is the update over?
i still dont see my site when i serach for www.site.com/index.html

[Dave_Hawley]

so, is the update over?

How long is a piece of string? Updates are perpetual.

Dave

[sit2510]

Hi Everyone,

Googleguy - "I think most of the data for this iteration has been folded in now "

=====================================

Oops...! If that's the case, then this Florida Update is the *ADVANCE* version of Dominic by Google? Last time G had shown what they intend to head for in regards to the serp and new algo but had done it poorly - so this seems to be the enhancement of Dominic algo. The missing index page is one of its symptom and I'm quite worry that this round they may not reappear. In the future we have to stress much more on "organic links"!

[sit2510]

>>> Most of these sites have links coming from thematically similar websites or pages. I mean, for an instance, the sites at top for hosting related keywords have links from hosting related sites or the links pages have the keywords (hosting etc.) in the title. Any thoughts?

==================================

It is unlikely to be the case, napoleon_bona_part_2...I believe many sites that suffer from missing index pages and got dumped got links only from thematically similar sites with related link text.

[Jessica]

How can Google leave "missing index pages" not fixed?
I don't think its possible.
I'm pretty sure they will fix it.

[coosblues]

I think googleguy is much like the bible, you must interpret to get the real facts, if you dont you arent really reading what he is saying.

And next are we going to believe that Google is God?

Bad things happen to good people and vice-versa, but to put GG in the same sentence with the bible is going a bit to far.

I believe, but in the One and only "G", and if you have to ask which "G" that is it may be time to rethink your life rather than your web sites.

[icebane]

I think, you need to preach somewhere else.

[djgreg]

Hi guys,

I've been reading this thread since it came up, but I didn't thought there was much to say.
Now some of my observations:

I have about 30 domains in Google, all in other "keyword-areas", some on very competitve keywords some on niche-keywords.
And all in all I don't know what you all are complaining about. None of my sites has moved up or down. They all keep their good positions, except one site, which completely fell out. But this problem occured with other webmasters, too so I think it is due to some technical (spidering) problems.
Therefore I think everybody who made good, non-tricky, google-guideline seo should keep his position, or a competitor has made better seo and ranks above now.

What displeases me a bit are so-called "search-engine-sites/directories" which have created a doorwaypage for every keyword combination they can imagine. Those doorwaypages have usually paid links or affiliate links on them and rank pretty high for 2-3 keyword phrases.

I really can't see a quality - decrease in the SERPS for my keywords and the searches I usally do for private purposes.

greg

[sit2510]

>>> How can Google leave "missing index pages" not fixed?
I don't think its possible.
I'm pretty sure they will fix it.

=======================================

Jessica, I also hope so because I'm one of the victims, but what make me worry is that not all the index pages are missing! IMHO, G does not miss any index page this time, but it seems that G does *NOT* credit much enough link weight that they previous did, so the index pages got dumped and lose the positions. From my observation, it is not necessary to be the index page, but any other page that has inflated incoming links.

[Jessica]

but my index page didnt just droop - it has disappeared from the search.

i do a search for www.site.com/index.html and google is unable to find it

[Miop]

My index page seems to be ok, but the sub index pages are not even up to date versions which were cached. My toolbar can't decide what pr my page has.
I'd guess it hasn't finished - I hope it hasn't finished.
If it has, I should say something is wrong - even 3rd level directory blog pages are showing higher than some of the big boys in my field.

[gosman]

Backlinks keep appearing then disapperaing on www

My PR keeps increasing then decreasing

Anyone else noticing this.

I don't think it's over yet.

[lbobke]

gosman,

same here, PR comes and goes for my domains.

Laurenz

[allanp73]

My index pages are finally back. The serps for many terms which I have historically ranked well are showing deceased ranking. Strangely sites with less pr, less relevant text, weaker anchor text backlinks and sites which are not even related to the search phrase are ranking better than my niche site.
I hope this is not the end of the process because it looks bad.

[WebmasterFisherman]

I am seeing Hewlett Packard ranking high for a web development related term on -va.

Sure: they have PR10 and some mentioning of "company" and "development" in the body.

Looks like they are switching over to another business :)

[edited by: WebmasterFisherman at 10:59 am (utc) on Nov. 19, 2003]

[my3cents]

Many of my internal pages seem to be comepletely gone too for their keywords. My index page is ranking for those keywords 5-20 spots below where the internal page used to rank. I am seeing some of my pages show up for the wrong search term, for what seems to be, because it has a link to the proper page in anchor text. (?)

My index page only lost a few spots for the main term (which accounts for about 50% of the market), it's been top 2-3 for about 5 months, top ten for a year) but I see that many of my largest competitors have vanished. I doubt they did anything close to being considered spam. In their places are a variety of pages related to the keyphrase, a link to an old report from the EPA, a DEEP amazon page and a couple of very poor single product/low PR 2-3 page websites.

My home page drops from 2 to 9 and my sales are up, because somewhow, at least for the last few days, google no longer finds some of my competitors from the top 10 worthy of a top 500 listing anymore?

I really doubt that those quality sites will not return. My index page vanished in Esmeralda for "weeks but not months" and I had similar problems last Sept./Oct. - I made no changes to my conservative approach and everything came back in, some better than before.

If all the data is "folded in" now, I would think we would start seeing it "unfold" soon and see what Florida has in store for the Holiday season. :)

my3cents

[chompy]

i just ran through the datacentres and here's my results for my site for a single keyword;

www-ex 234,000 results position =25 backlinks =6
www-kr 188,000 results position =25 backlinks =6
www-mc 183,000 " " =23 " =6
www.va 276,000 " " =25 " =5
www.dc 279,000 " " =25 " =6
www.fi 266,000 " " =25 " =6
www.ab 274,000 " " =25 " =6
www.in 283,000 " " =13 " =6
www.cw 281,000 " " =25 " =6
www.gv 187,000 " " =25 " =6

for a generic word such as 'news' this is the results from the DC's

www-ex 326,000,000 top3 cnn,bbc,abc backlinks top1 115,000
www-kr 252,000,000 top3 ---same--- " " 115,000
www-mc 240,000,000 top3 cnn,bbc,fox " " 114,000
www-va 372,000,000 top3 cnn,bbc,abc " " 110,000
for the remainin DCs the top3 remain the same and the backlinks remain the same the results total varies as follows

www-dc 378,000,000
www-fi 357,000,000
www-ab 370,000,000
www-in 368,000,000
www-cw 377,000,000
www-gv 253,000,000

a search against 'share buying' returned a similar range of results varying over the DC's the top 3 remained the same except for on DC's www-mc and www-in

from the above it seems to me that www-mc, www-va www-in are most in change in easy to see factors the others less noticably so. Can anything else be determined from looking at these datacentre results other than it is still in flux? And i'd like www-in to be the index! ;-)

[chompy]

and i forgot to add, www.google.com appears to be showing the www-dc datacentre results currently, going by the results for the terms i used in the above post.

[harrisuk]

Yep my PR is changing also. Going up and down. I started a new post on this in the Google Toolbar forum but they said it was not relevant and would be moved here once moderated.

They obviously havent bothered moving it, I thought it was worth discussing to be honest.....

[steveb]

If you don't change your hosts file to the -va datacenter, updated PR will move in and out of your toolbar as the datacenters take their normal turns being the default one serving you. It's perfectly normal and essentially irrelevant. When the new PR moves to all the datacenters from -va then the toolbar display will be stable for those who leave it at the default.

What happens to be showing on www doesn't matter and will keep changing till all the datacenters sync, so you really should just ignore all that.

[Napoleon]

>> I am seeing Hewlett Packard ranking high for a web development related term.... Sure: they have PR10 and some mentioning of "company" and "development" in the body <<

Hehehe... yes, that sort of scenario is WIDESPREAD in this index.

When you change the algo to crank out index pages via an anchor-text and on-page SEO formula, the result is:

a) Focused niche sites drop out
b) The quality of the SERPS is drastically reduced as a result
c) And of course, many small guys suffer badly

Unless they are totally stupid, or fixated with one single set of test data, Google are certainly aware of this. They must, therefore, have a different agenda to the one most people presume.

Ironically, the winners, apart from those big (HP type) sites with deep pockets, could ultimately include Inktomi. For the first time ever, their index now compares favourably to Google for my testbed of 20 searches.

[netnerd]

I agree- intomi have better results for me. I even hate to say this, but even msn is proving a more facourable option on some searches for my industry!

[tigger]

never though I'd say it but Ink is looking better, hang your head in shame G

[merlin30]

So does AV and ATW!

[wellzy]

There is no way these can be view as more relevant search results. For some keyword phrases where I was #1, I am no longer on the map. The first two sites are not even relevant. The next few are Directory listings that are relevant, but do not contain the search phrase anywhere. A lot of hard word just went down the drain. I cannot believe these are the results they want. Guess it's heavier on the PPC for me.

[subway]

Google, if you are still reading ... these are the most ridiculous results you have ever produced. You must have become the laughing stock of the search engine industry over the last 96 hours.

I see Spam everywhere and will not be emailing you with examples as it's not my job to help you produce relevant results - it's yours. I think expecting all the webmasterworld "Google algo change guinea pigs" here to report Spam is adding insult to injury.

Sorry.
V Disgruntled Customer

[SlyOldDog]

Come on guys and girls.

Take it on the chin. You got caught with your pants down. So did we. Forget about it. You have a month to clean up.

[stevew]

"You have a month to clean up."

Really?

It would be nice to know just what, exactly.

[textex]

Google SEO and the proper way to link exchange seems like a riddle!

What sort of changes do we do?

We make these irregular SEO changes, then Yahoo! switches to INK and we all get hammered in INK!

[troi21]

For my main search that I was number one (and sometimes number one and two) for, I have completely disappeared. If you add "uk" to the end of the term, I am number two. I do not know whether I will reappear for the initial search term or if I have been penalised for some unknown reason.
I could make changes if I knew what was wrong. Let's accept the update is over and start to really analyse what is going on.

I should also mention that within the top ten for "my keyphrase uk" there are three sites that are spammy: cross linking hidden in comment tags and that sort of thing.

[edited by: troi21 at 12:22 pm (utc) on Nov. 19, 2003]

[dazzlindonna]

it seems to me that it can't be over until backlinks/pr spread across the datacenters, and that hasn't happened yet. (at least not for me).

[bnc929]

Googleguy,

I wrote to you as requested about the problems I'm seeing (with a page on purple widgets showing up on a search for red widgets and the page on red widgets not showing up at all). You haven't gotten back to me. Should I write again?

[jady]

I still dont think that this can be the actual results.. I mean searching for XYZ in my geographic area is filled with junk: Newspapers, Directories and yes, even link exchange pages with titles to the sites that USED to be in the first few spots! How is this helpful to a novice user to find a link exchange page - THEN have to click on a link from that page to find a relevant result...

They must still be testing. If these are the final results, then we must welcome INK and MSN as big players.. I am sure there will be algo changes (and there need to be for over-optimization) but these CANT be the final answers...

I am going to wait before doing anything - thank GOD our business does not thrive off marketing.. Whew!

[steveb]

"and will not be emailing you with examples as it's not my job to help you produce relevant results - it's yours"

New candidate for the Ironic Post of the Year Award.

What the heck is your job if not to help "produce relevant results"?

Just a tip, webmaster should be creating relevant content, which thus leads to search engines being able to deliver relevant results.

[mmr82]

"You have a month to clean up."

The problem is... There is nothing to be cleaned!

[SeventiesMartin]

Amongst all the other wierd changes.

My page on Widgets, called Widgets.htm that was doing well for a search of Widgets is gone. Instead are 2 other pages that just contain a link to the widgets page in the nav bar. They don't contain the phrase Widgets anywhere else on the page or in any tags.

Why these 2 pages, if google is going to list these 2 pages instead, which is obviously wrong as neither have anything to do with Widgets, then why not the other several hundred pages with Widgets in the Nav bar.

It all seems a bit random to me.

[penfold25]

is this a record for complaining about results on webmasterworld, does this beat the old updates?

[Crush]

Great, got pr6 on most of my sites now. The only thing is that they have gone from being #1 to nowhere. At least in the old updates you would go to the second page at worst.

I see that this seems to be the main problem with most webmasters here. Do not see many people jumping for joy. If they are happy they are 1 time posters who have not been round too long.

Turn back the algo clock google!

[killipso]

Day 4 "Florida Massacre"

Well its only getting worse.

Heres some examples :

Rhode Island Keyword

Travel Guide
Hazardous Waste for Generators
Autobody Certification Program Elements
Geographic Area Series
Household Hazardous Products

Not one of these is remotely close to the keyword.

Florida Keyword
1 thru 10
Message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam
message board spam

Anyone wants the keywords sticky me.
You guys all have it good and should be happy . What I got is a living hell here.
Now I am noticing 2 companies that have a huge web ring are showing up in very prominent main keywords that I have.

GG if your reading this whats going on with the results I e-mailed you with?
Any update would be appreciated.

Also being a noobie to google I know they have a company in California and I know the guys came from Stanford.
Do they have a branch in Massachusetts? Or do the guys that went to Stanford live in Massachusetts?
Anyone know?
Dan

[soapystar]

it really is quite funny, even the sites that have avoided the drop do things like:
search for blue widget

serps return page for green widget from mydomain
plus page for red widget from mydomain
but not the page for blue widget from mydomain

the pages it returns simply link to the blue widget page, quite remarkable really...one day when we are very very old we will find out how google test their relavancy...you think they use dice or coins?

[stevew]

troi21:
"For my main search that I was number one (and sometimes number one and two) for, I have completely disappeared. If you add "uk" to the end of the term, I am number two."

Same here. Trouble is, adding "UK" to a search is often a second option for searchers.

"I do not know whether I will reappear for the initial search term or if I have been penalised for some unknown reason.
I could make changes if I knew what was wrong."

Couldn't agree more : steady, constant, careful progress wiped out overnight, but only on maybe half the sites/terms I work on.

"Let's accept the update is over and start to really analyse what is going on."

Couldn't agree less : hold your horses -- don't forget previous updates, where much of it went back again.

[Napoleon]

>> The problem is... There is nothing to be cleaned! <<

I agree. The countless web sites gone AWOL which have never made any effort at all to SEO, are but one testimony to that.

THE REALITY: Focused niche websites, attract focused niche anchor text, and contain focused niche content. A recipe for disaster under the new algo.

The sad fact is that Google is no longer a particularly good SE for focused niche searches. The party in error therefore is actually Google... through this algo change it has also changed its own CHARACTER: more bland returns from fewer high ranking sites.

That, unfortunately for Google, is part and parcel of QUALITY... it defines either consciously or subconsciously how people will actually view the SERPS. This should not be underestimated, because it determines how people will ultimately view the search engine itself over the medium term.

I do regret this, because I have had a high regard for Google over a long time. However, by the objective measures in my toolset at least, their crown has definitely slipped.

[dazzlindonna]

-zu has been down for a while this morning. i tried hard to think of some positive out of that, but i'm only grasping at straws at this point. :)

[wellzy]

"You have a month to clean up."

That would be fine if we knew what to clean up. It's hard to clean up an optimized site with no spam. I think this update goes against Bretts "Successful Site in 12 Months"