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Yahoo Update July 13th

   
12:20 pm on Jul 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I am seeing a major update...I think?

I say I think b/c it is so bad it seems like a bug. There was also no weather report on the Yahoo! blog.

Anyone else seeing what I am seeing?

8:01 am on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Ya, just a tweak ... not sure for the better, but just having a look now. Most of the issues with the latest update remain. Looks like the internal site issues are still there (wrong page/right site) and externally, force is certainly outweighing meaning/intent.

Putting this much emphasis on external links w/o having theming/mapping, authority, and (ideallly) semantic stuff working well is problematic. Issues that arise include:
- quality niche sites with good but not huge numbers of links tend to struggle (I see a little more of that with this tweak, I think)
- searches with words having multiple meanings can be awfully bad
- lots of links with right words can work wonders for a page/site, even if from only vaguely related and unrelated sites.

Add to that heavy handed filters that clip out best pages and feature bad choices from good sites, and you've got a real mixed bag. Link sellers gotta be feeling giddy right now.

8:26 am on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't believe this update had everything to do with authority inbound links as my niche the results are flat out poor! The first 7 out of 10 results have 0 inbound links pointing to them(Not to mention any inbound anchor text). I am also noticing that inbound anchor text to home page is seeming to be a killer for a domain. Anybody else noticing this?

The old ado about Google bombing a competitor would surely hurt somebody with this new Yahoo algo. Put your competitors on some spam link farm and WALLA! This update is an utter mess.

Something else I just noticed...Yahoo indexing it's own clicks of Overture clients PPC ads.....Very interesting Yahoo! Proof that Inktomi spiders PPC ads, not only their own either as I see Google tags as well!

www.domain.com/inktomi_click.asp?product=50805
www.domain.com/index.asp?ad=google

YSM is now turned OFF until further notice!

[edited by: MLHmptn at 8:49 am (utc) on July 21, 2006]

9:17 am on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Seeing fair Results today in my niche, blog sites which were ranking high are gone. Now I am much happy with the results were I am looking at.

Keep it up Yahoo.

10:01 am on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



God God God, My site drop from first to 50. First one now is less than me 5 times quality backlinks! What happened I wonder? How long this dance for?. But all dosent shock me much because Google still likes me!
Seems like all good sites on Yahoo is gone for holiday!

Stop it, Yahoo

2:13 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



A site:www search for my domain which is under penalty, showed some positive changes that I thought might be the early stages of penalty removal. 2 of my pages were fully indexed with a description and cache, and some of my dead page links were removed, but the next day, they reverted back to their original indexing of my site containing most of my dead links and an earlier homepage title before I last edited it.

They seem to be in a state of change, but I don't know if it's good or bad for me.

3:40 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The TWEAK they just did really messed things up in our 5 niches. All completely different niches. We got dumpted for EBAY listings, WIKI, SHOPPING.com, BLOGSPOT, AMAZON, and a number of other shopping portals.
3:50 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Seing a little improvement today. (If we can name improvement what is the most obsolete algo compared to GG/MSN)

Well it's not like anyone is searching on Yahoo anymore....when they decide to really work on a serious algorithm instead of trying to put up their PPC ads everywhere...just wake me up!

4:59 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Today I noticed some improvements but I think Yahoo is not able to handle this. A lot of junk is still in the top 10, much more than at the beginning of the year. Results are much less relevant than 6 months ago and there is a traffic decline on yahoo, I feel, although too soon to be sure.
7:36 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Its seems to be a trend in the industry, less relevant results = more money for pay per clicks.
8:28 pm on Jul 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Vietnamese "It all not the big deal anyway. Who uses Yahoo for search now?"
Let me tell you that only from some sites that rank very well on Yahoo I make a few thousand backs a month.
3:21 am on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Seing a little improvement today. (If we can name improvement what is the most obsolete algo compared to GG/MSN)

Based on what I've seen in the last two months I would say all three have their fair share of issues...

Well it's not like anyone is searching on Yahoo anymore....when they decide to really work on a serious algorithm instead of trying to put up their PPC ads everywhere...just wake me up!

When you are getting really serious traffic from Yahoo for keywords you might change your mind on this...

3:27 am on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I dont think the changes have improved anything. Actually, I am seeing more irrelevant results, spam and link farms.

I'm certain we will see some more changes in the next few days. These results surely wont remain.

6:14 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



No reason to use Yahoo anymore, since its now a bad copy of google with junk added.
Search engine rankings now for relevancy as of today.
1. Ask.com
2. Google
3. Yahoo and MSM

ranking 3 months ago

1. Yahoo
2. MSM
3. Ask.com
4. Google

As you can see Yahoo and MSN have really been going downhill lately.

7:23 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I agree with Garya, I would also rate Ask as the best. A few months ago Yahoo was providing great results.

But here is a strange thing, when I use Yahoo Australia and do a search for wherever in the world the results look fine, good content, relative results, fine, same apllies if I use Y Singapore, but use the main .com and it's a different story.
Strange but exactly the same happens on M, use the main .com and you get one set of results, use anything like Brazil, Australia, Arabia, Singapore even if searching for say Canada or France!

Anyone have any ideas why South East Asia websites can do very well using Y international sites, regardless of where in the world they are, but can't get anywhere on the main .com?

7:43 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"Ask" is not all that - after the last "movement" it ranked one of my websites #5 for a very competitive word. Funny thing, this website:
a) has nothing to do with the keyword (simillar industries, but not exactly the same)
b) I have not touched this website in months - no links comming, no updates - and BAM - #5

But as always, Ask has NO TRAFFIC.

9:40 pm on Jul 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am seeing directories and gov, and .org moving up now on yahoo.
look familar. Yahoo wants your pay per click $$$$
6:18 pm on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Garya I agree - Yahoo is looking to have ppc increases by providing irrelevant results.
11:09 pm on Jul 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



.

have to agree 100% with Garya

heisje

.

9:05 pm on Jul 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Nothing looking good in my niche. My most powerful sites with the most content and inbound links dropped from the second page. I have other sits that I just started ranking in the top 3 with no inbound links.
3:15 am on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well I have my yahoo search bookmarked to canada
[ca.yahoo.com...]

and have my MSN search set to latin america
[latam.msn.com...]

Just can't get good search results anymore in the US

8:29 am on Jul 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Looking at my server stats this morning here in the UK (four servers, five hundred sites, some big, some small, some many years old, some brand new) I find that the biggest referrers over the last 24 hours have been:

MSN (I didn't believe it either at first)
Google
Yahoo

Three months ago Yahoo was far and away our biggest referrer with MSN well in third place. The writing is on the wall and if I had shares in Y! I would be very worried about them, things can happen quickly on the Internet. Declining revenues, major projects well behind schedule: another AltaVista perhaps?

5:32 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"Just can't get good search results anymore in the US "

Would have to agree with that statement...we rank 4th in Canada and 58th in the US. The "industry Leader" for a particular 2 word kw we target is ranking 56th...on G and MSN they are 1st. Absolute garbage...

6:12 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Keep in mind that for every site that drops, another takes its place in the SERP's. The winners simply tend not to post as much. ;-)

I've made it clear, I think, that I personally see issues with this update. Still do and don't mind saying so. But it doesn't help Y or anyone else to just say, "Y sucks." If you have specific kinds of issues you see, without using specific search terms or URL's in your posts, by all means try to define those issues. The SE's do listen and think and investigate, when they get a sense of the issues. But, "My site doesn't rank well anymore..." -- as you might imagine -- is not enough for them to go on.

As for pushing users to the ads, the SE are not that clueless. Of course they want to make money with the ads, but they need to deliver quality search results or the goose that lays the golden eggs eventually dies. The engineers at the SE's take their jobs seriously. They want to produce great results. Their bosses want them to produce great results. But that job hasn't gotten easier over the past couple of years.

Hey, I'm not saying give these guys a break. It's their job to try and field the best possible results. All I'm sayin' is, no one is helping themselves or anyone else by just saying the results are bad. Help them help you; try to provide useful feedback.

7:20 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Love to but they never reply. Communication is a two way process. Would anyone from Yahoo! like talk to us?
7:41 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Ummm, point was that they read the posts here, whether they reply or not, and that useful constructive posts might help them improve, while "Y sucks" posts are not really of much use except taking up bandwidth.
7:43 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I've got hundreds of sites so updates generally don't make a lot of difference to me. However; what really irks me is to see so many sites getting to the top of the SERPs for very important search terms as a result of blog spam and obvious weblink rings. If there was someone we could actually talk to about these things it would ease a lot of the frustrations that people feel and help Y! get more relevant results. Webmasters could be vital allies to SE engineers but only if we know that we're being listened to. I agree that trying to write an algo that produces relevant results despite the tidal wave of spam sites is a pretty horrendous task but leaving aside self-interest some of us have been around a long time and we could contribute a lot of good ideas if only someone would communicate.
8:43 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



" Ummm, point was that they read the posts here, whether they reply or not, and that useful constructive posts might help them improve, while "Y sucks" posts are not really of much use except taking up bandwidth. "

The thing is that we are severly limited as to what we CAN talk about. Leaving out specific site/search phrases we have to speak in genaralities which I am affraid is just not quite enough information for us and even them unless problems tend to be across the board.

But...

Those who are seeing adverse effects can post more specifics on the yahoo blog. They have provided feedback of sorts so I wouldn't count them as a place that does not provide feedback entirely.

9:09 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month




Sure, I appreciate that search engine engineers can't discuss specifics on a public forum, it would be unethical and in some jurisdictions illegal, but unfortunately one-sided conversations rarely get anywhere. Most of us prefer for someone to at least acknowledge a message and failure to provide that simple courtesy can, rightly or wrongly, be perceived as arrogance particularly by people who have families to support and bills to pay but who have just seen their income disappear as a result of actions taken by someone they can't communicate with. However, if anyone from Y is reading this post I have a suggestion to make for what it is worth - for commercial search terms please ignore all blog links and put a substantial penalty on all sites with 'blog' in the URL. I have yet to see a single site that's worth viewing and blogs were never meant to be commercial web sites. This one step would improve the search results considerably. We have to recognise that blogs are a separate entity entirely from traditional websites and so they need to be handled differently.
9:23 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Ah, and another thing, now I'm on my soapbox! Redirect scripts are making a mockery of a lot of categories - it's not just Y! that's falling victim to this, it's a general problem. Is there no way an algo can detect these? They are usually on free or .biz domains and contribute nothing whatsoever to relevancy. At the moment, sadly, a lot of the top categories in Y! that I have looked at are infested with them.
9:32 pm on Jul 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



The thing is that we are severly limited as to what we CAN talk about. Leaving out specific site/search phrases we have to speak in genaralities which I am affraid is just not quite enough information for us and even them unless problems tend to be across the board.

Well it's true we don't allow specific kw or url mentions. (Spamming, whisper campaigns and outing competitors - just to name the obvious issues - create more problems than they solve.)

But while specific sites or SERP's are sometimes needed by the SE's to sort out a very specific single-site issue, it can be very useful also for the SE to hear clear descriptions of global issues. When the SE's get repeated reports of homepages disappearing, wrong subpages being shown, redirects not working properly, mega sites dominating SERP's, etc, they are pretty good at digging in to isolate the cause of such problems. (Those are just examples of general issues that have been raised over the years.)

It's also a good idea when a site owner thinks that some specific issue is suddenly occuring to try and explain the issue as they see it. Often a poster isn't sure whether an issue is his/her site only, or new and widespread, until posts are read and reacted to. I could not even count the number of times that single posts identifying new general problems have led to massively long threads that uncovered major issues at the SE's.

Most of us prefer for someone to at least acknowledge a message and failure to provide that simple courtesy can, rightly or wrongly, be perceived as arrogance particularly by people who have families to support and bills to pay but who have just seen their income disappear as a result of actions taken by someone they can't communicate with.

This is not a new sentiment, but if your income is reliant upon algo shifts in organic SERP's, it would be wise to give thought to evolving your business model. That is no way to function, if you want to sleep at night. Many of us have been there.

As for observations like the blog links, redirect scripts, etc., keep them coming! The more people chime in on a specific issue, the more likely that issue is to get rapid attention. ;-)

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