Forum Moderators: open
A: Because anyone offering sound advice based on experience gets accused of self promotion and has all their posts deleted.
Q: But surely someone who knows what they are doing helping others through a free forum is a good thing?
A: I'd tend to agree, but you'll notice that most of the people that used to post helpful tips and advice have not posted here for ages
Q: Why is that?
A: I think that they found it a little disheartening to spend hours typing up helpful posts and see all their hard work deleted by the moderators
Q: So what is the point of this forum now?
A: It's OK if you want to find spam, or if you are bored and want to obsess about spyware or other people stealing your traffic
Q: But I want to learn about Advertising Sales & Affiliate Programs?
A: Sorry, we can't help. We're not allowed to say anything real.
No offnce, but WebmasterWorld moderators, if you are reading this, do me the courtesy of explaning your draconian logic on here, in public, so that I and others can understand exactly how it all works.
We've spent years helping people on here and used to find it a great place to come and share ideas - these days it's as dead as a duck. Seems like a real shame, don't we all agree?
so ..lets dissect ..ripping apart has no finesse and I'm fussy what I get on my clothes and hands ( Mrs Leosghost who come from franchise immobilier and marketing in another place ..and thinks you guys are so old school ..gives me hell when I get nasties under the bridge ) ..so I'll be delicate ....might even warm me 'ands ;-)
1.
Oh no, one of those supposed "self promoters"
no, precious ;-)..you promote mr anthony ..who one presumes gives you a cut of all new recruits if you actually manage the tag team succesfully enough to generate any ..
( cleans hands ..back to dissection )
2.
There is a THICK grey line between promotion and educating...
mais non mr wray luv ;-)..the only thing "thick" here is that you still havent got that we are are not so "thick " as to fall for your routine ..
( cleans hands ..again ..back to dissection ..Mrs Leosghost is gonna be cross wiv I )
3.
I guess there is no limits as to how brown your nose can get?{
( cleans hands ..and screen ..again ..back to dissection ..Mrs Leosghost wants to know since when WebmasterWorld became askat forum ..I said dunno ..see mr wrays join date )
4.
I was genuinely intersted in the subject
( cleans hands ..on ebook ..burns lovely ..warms hands )
5.
hot thread
( steralised hands in flames from ebook ..burns well ..has at least one use )
6.
when someone posted and merely mentionned that I had done well because of my affiliation with him,
see #4a ..above .. :-)
( steralised hands in flames from ebook ..burns well ..desert tribes know that camelsh*t burns well ..so apparently does electronic BS )
7.
but once a few self-righteous, trusted, old school forum posters didn't like what they "percieved" as promotion, it was shut down.dunno about that guv ..I'm a semi domesticated nordic mythical whossit ..come closer to being IP banned here more times than you ( if we are getting into cred and pissing contests and all ;-)..but I got me this motive meter ..fixed now ( but you're banging the stops on the BS one too ..ya lil devil you ;-).. maybe others can tell that a good thread suddenly went rotten ..due to the presence of something lurking beneath the surface ..who nose ..? some things just smell funny ..there's roses ..and there's attar of roses ..;-)
( dont need to clean hands ..cos wrote attar of roses ..;-) )
8.
It's true that the forum offers almost no good information anymore. I can say that truthfully
was gonna say somethin else ..but TOS wont let me ..:(( ..can think it tho ;-) ..just like every one else is ;-))
( dont need to clean hands .visted TOS ..it's clean there )
9.
Due to overmoderation we have taken away some of the best threads in my opinion, and you have kept many of the best in the business from posting.
( cleans hands and cuts fresh romarin ;-)
9.
EVEN if we posted purely educational content to help others, which we do, we'd be worried that it would be deleted because of someone's unfounded "suspicions" as to what our motive could be. I mean, why/how could we possibly post anything useful unless we wanted to benefit from it somehow.
EVEN if we posted purely educational content to help others
which we dowould have been more credible if that had've been the part in caps ;-)
we'd be worried that it would be deleted because of someone's unfounded "suspicions" as to what our motive could be.snot stopped you til now ..mr anthony will explain what are "chancers" to you
I mean, why/how could we possibly post anything useful unless we wanted to benefit from it somehow.with no more than the addition of a bold tag what was really in your mind whilst you typed becomes crystal clear ..freudian slip? ..you see mr wray ..you've all got "form" ..and just like body language ..it can even get past your very bestest typing face ..
( cleans hands ..again ..for now ..) ..
so who's left in the woodwork ..?
oh yeah ..you see mr a and mr m ( and shills )..people like ronin are quite happy to give stuff away and exchange ideas ..just like webwork said ..and no ulterior motive ..ronin hasnt' got form ..
now when is one of you going to answer lawman ..carefull his BS meter is better than mine ..and he's cut me more times than you can shake a stick at ..but we both ..along with Marcia and others who oppose you ..truely have the interests of this forum and its at heart ..not merely our own
oddsod may even explain to you how ..for free :-) or not ..his decision ..
but way back in this thread ..he too agreed that you and your kind should not change the way the aff area is run ..
That post only goes to prove that the mod should have deleted ALL of them and not allowed ANY specifics. Or should have nuked the whole post. Newbies need to learn HOW to evaluate and pick programs for themselves.
Long-time, trustworthy senior members have expressed their views, which aren't the same as whiners and/or those who have a personal agenda; but then again, maybe that forum has been too loose after all, and needs to tighten up a bit.
Oh dear. Well I am not a "trustworthy senior member," so it appears that I do not need to participate in this discussion any longer.
:wave: Bye!
Now as I go to write this thread, look at what I see right below the text input box:
Promoting, selling, and recruiting are not allowed in the general forums.
Seems this thread has two very different sides. One side wants to be allowed to break the TOS about no self promotion as saying that by breaking the TOS they would be helping out fellow members. Just curious did this group have a booth at pubcon and pay for the privilege of promoting their helpful program?
The other side wants to keep the forum as it is, which is a forum that abides by the forum charter and WebmasterWorld's TOS. If Brett wants to alter or amend this, then that's his perogative.
Somewhere I read in this thread that all the old long term posters such as mfishy etc. Have been driven away.......Nonsense. I see mfishy here and when he has something to post, he posts.
I also see mention here of mods having ulterior motives about allowing some URL drops while deleting others. I know my fellow mods and they don't do this, and neither do I. Heck we'd all love to drop URL's to various programs but that is now what this forum is about.
This forum is about helping each other out with tips, info etc. This forum is not about pointing members to high paying programs that line everyone's pockets for promoting the latest and greatest ebook, mlm, forex program or anything else.
Now I'd love to hear ( as I'm sure Brett would) people's solutions as to how we can maintain the forum and to teach people how to earn more money online without the forum being one giant spamfest/URL dropfest. Who's to decide which URL's make it and which don't? As Marcia suggested, maybe we as mods need to not allow any URL drops and that would keep those that think we have a personal interest on one progam over another from coming to this erroneous conclusion.
Suggestions?
I mean, why/how could we possibly post anything useful unless we wanted to benefit from it somehow.
Nuff said.
Marcia...That was sarcasm dear...one as sage as yourself should have been able to figure that out. Or, maybe that's why you are misinterpreting everything else in this thread?
Eljefe et al...Who said anything about Ebooks? Or MLM? This has nothing to do about either! Did you not know that MLM and Affiliate marketing are two completely different things? And I don't think anyone's suggesting dropping URL's. Even I don't want that. I think the main issue is where to draw the line. If we can't talk about programs that do well...can we talk about industries in general? If not industries..then what? Success stories inspire...I don't think it's bragging at all, it's encouragement for others who want to know that they can in fact make it...even in today's internet marketing world. Rfung's thread inspired even me. Everyone wants to hear that someone who first struggled finally made it and is now a success.
Question for all: And please, only serious answers. So, you know that certain individuals do well. And they do well in certain industries with certain programs. What kind of posts would you consider legitimate from such an individual without thinking they were self-promoting? I ask this, because even if we presume that we are posting something useful, or educational, there will always be someone who thinks that we are promoting ourselves. A no-win situation.
Leosghost...Instead of burning all of those Ebooks (and who knows where you're getting all of them...you must like buying them), why don't you just burn us at the stake to keep warm?
Affiliate programs are generally setup as MLM/pyramid systems (and that is NOT a criticism of it - only commentary) designed to pass on the actual act of doing the front line selling to someone else.
That is patently incorrect.
Perhaps that is your perception, because affiliates in two-tier affiliate programs (by the way, anything more than two-tiers is not an affiliate program) are the ones who try and spam here.
But the two-tier affiliate programs account for a small minority of affiliate programs out there.
If you are familiar with the larger affiliate networks, such as CJ, LinkShare, Performics, and Shareasale, it's not even possible to have two-tiers when running an affiliate program with them.
Brett, can you provide a citation from a credible source to back up your statement?
I personally was "befriended" by someone a couple years back who subsequently (and subtly) gave me a "friendly tip" and helped me with ideas for content (by personal example) for a program they were making a lot of money with. Which they sure were! I joined up "under" the person, found a terrific keyworded domain and put up a site - and never could bring myself to promote anything in that space, it didn't "feel right" to me, personally. So I let it lie fallow and just let the domain expire. Sad to say, the person stopped being my friend for some strange reason (sniffle, sniffle).
There are, indeed, people who have made a bundle of cash by recruiting a sizeable "downline" - much the same way as MLM'ers do. It's part of what could be called "relationship marketing."
credible source
If you are familiar with the larger affiliate networks, such as CJ, LinkShare, Performics, and Shareasale, it's not even possible to have two-tiers when running an affiliate program with them.
==================================================================
Marcia...That was sarcasm dear...one as sage as yourself should have been able to figure that out. Or, maybe that's why you are misinterpreting everything else in this thread?
You have to look at the context and know the field, a moderator of the advertising and affiliate forum should be selected because they know the advertising and affiliate field, not just because they stuck their hand up.
Eljefe et al...
[edited by: Marcia at 7:35 am (utc) on Jan. 29, 2007]
Leosghost...Instead of burning all of those Ebooks (and who knows where you're getting all of them...you must like buying them), why don't you just burn us at the stake to keep warm?
Leosghost...I can't respond to anything you've posted because I can't bloody well figure out what you are going on about. I think it's the English language, but I'm not sure? Care for another bottle of Scotch?
Did you not know that MLM and Affiliate marketing are two completely different things?
Now why would there be such a glaring similarity between watching you all at work when you are posting and watching people running 3 card tricks ..hhhmmmm ..
Again the current thread on the hotel industry and online affs is working very well , giving very detailed info , and no one has seen it necessary to tell us their "success story" nor quote their income , nor describe their cars ..in order to for us to know that they know what they are talking about ..there is no "come on" ..no "hook for the marks" in that thread ..unlike all of yours ..
Yeah, right. Eljefe et al can run circles around any two-bit, conniving, self-promoting profile spammers any day of the week. And incidentally, it's been a couple of years since I read the thread on "Professional Forum Spammers" but if there isn't reference being made to profile spammers it should be updated to include them, so that we can link directly to a post on it when folks fit the bill as perfect examples and think they're pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.
I agree with you totally Marcia :-)
BTW mr wray ( et al )..as to where I get all my ebooks from to burn ..easy ..comes of having mates in the UK fraud squad , the FBI and the gendarmerie nationale ..and les services des "repression des fraudes " and les "police juridique" ..they send me copies of ebooks ..the french services sometimes even bring em personally ..or show me foriegn sites that their nationals have had problems with .. and ask what I think of them ..I translate complete with all the nuances ..we all laugh at how gullible some people are ..and how clever some others think they are ..
..and at how you cant actually hide in tax havens as easily as some think ..
Just like to say thank you to Brett for leaving this thread open.
By the time I got halfway down the first page I was wondering why it had not yet been locked.
By the time I got through the lot (to date) I'd realised just how educational the thread is.
This is what the sub-title of this thread is, written by the person who started the thread:
A suggested answer
Begging forgiveness, but inquiring minds want to know.
[edited by: Marcia at 12:36 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2007]
I was suggesting an answer to why the section had died.
Like I said, I don't hang there. But if you're correct, solution(s) with specifics probably would be helpful.
BTW Marcia, yes we need to update the charter to include profile spammers. Usually these are easy to spot, but once in a while a few are that good and subtle that they accomplish their goal.
Hi, Shawn. I don't mean be interpreting what Brett posted, but from my understanding, I believe the reference is being made to two-tier programs.
So do I - I was challenging his assertion that "Affiliate programs are generally setup as MLM/pyramid systems".
There is no question that two-tier affiliate programs exist. it's just that such a scheme is NOT how affiliate programs are generally setup.
> If you are familiar with the larger affiliate networks,
> such as CJ, LinkShare, Performics, and Shareasale, it's
> not even possible to have two-tiers when running an
> affiliate program with them.
Hey Shawn - welcome back to the board. Comments appreciated.
I really don't mean that statement about a pyramid program as a *bad* thing. It is just a commentary on the structure. If a dealer, seller, or site is working directly with the manufacture of product, then that is single tier. However, when you get into networks, where dealers, sellers, and sites are more than 1 step removed from the producer of the product, you are in to a multi level distribution and sales setup (eg, cj). Most of those front line sellers, dealers, and sites (eg: generally called affiliates) have no contact with the original manufacturer of those products.
Again, that is not a negative criticism about the format of aff programs and/or networks. Don't let the industry lingo-of-the-day blind us to the problem we face here in that the biz model turns those dealers, sellers, and site owners in to pitch men. Their skin in the game is to go out and promote and generate leads and sales for that product. As a public venue, we have often become an unwitting vehicle for that act. From simple drive by spam, to sophisticated whisper campaigns, we have seen it all.
Hey Shawn - welcome back to the board. Comments appreciated.
Thanks. Never left - just a serial lurker. :-)
I really don't mean that statement about a pyramid program as a *bad* thing. It is just a commentary on the structure.
I guess it's all about semantics, but affiliate marketing and MLM are two very diverse camps in theory and practice.
For instance, something like AGLOCO is not an affiliate program. It's MLM and MLM/pyramid are bad things to legitimate affiliate marketers.
Since the MLM side of it has a dicey reputation, they sometimes try to brand themselves as affiliate marketers.
There are plenty of annoying one-tier affiliate marketing spammers for sure. They're just a different breed of abhorrent from the MLM/pyramid guys.
In my earlier post I was asking for solutions nad suggestons also that still ahdere to the TOS as well as the forum charter. I'm all ears :)
You asked for it:
I've routinely checked into the WebmasterWorld Affiliate Forum. It IS a fairly quiet place. I think it could buzz, as an educational place, but that likely would require a change of mind:
Like I said in my earlier post, I've routinely visited most affiliate forums. The "educational signal" to "other signal" ratio if about 1/187.
Teach. Teach affiliate marketing. Teach all aspects of it. Make the Affiliate Marketing forum a school, not a social event nor a promotional forum. Leave the egos at the door.
That would be something to watch, to experience, to participate in, wouldn't it?
Affiliate Managers who teach the ins and outs of affiliate marketing without being self-referential? How could it be done?! (It's not really "can it be done" it's "But . . but . . what's in it for me? Will the bosses go for it? What's the ROI?" I'd like to suggest that showing intelligence and the ability to teach and train and the willingness to go to the effort would likely be a BIG attractant to anyone's program - without ever mentioning the particulars of the program. Okay . . well maybe the link in the AM's profile might give enough of a hint.)
Affiliate Marketers giving away the goods? That reluctance - the sense that "If I share this then I'm doing myself harm" is something that I suspect some people will never get over. As if it's just "this knowledge" is the trick when it comes to business success, forgetting about everything else, like drive and intelligence and alertness to change and adaptability and ability to manage cash flow and . . . "Oh, but if I tell anyone that ProgramX is working well then . . . "
Consequences or predictions are often more perceived than real, especially when it comes to sizing up a competitive landscape. I suspect that a great deal more could be vetted in an affiliate forum without material adverse consequences to those who might choose to be open or share a bit more. There's so much more to success than a list of tips or pointing someone in the right direction or even giving someone a "how to manual".
And my school only exists because I was deluged with stickies from WebmasterWorld members after posting educational stuff here around three years ago and got sick and tired of sending the same info by email, so your point about teaching bringing enquiries is bang on the money.
Make it like a school, not a dictatorship.
Perhaps what I'm asking for is that if a thread contains some obviously promotional posts, that these alone are edited/deleted by the mods, rather than the recent heavy handed approach where the whole thread, good posts and all, is deleted outright.
And to make it easier for those whose threads are moderated to comply in the future, it would help if the mods could leave a note (as they admitedly often do) explaining their reasoning, so that the offending posters can learn where they went wrong.
As I stated above, I like this place. I like helping others and I enjoy seeing others succeed, regardless of whether or not it profits me personally. I'm sure that many others feel the same, and a more conversational approach to moderation would encourage like minded individuals to return to the section in question secure in the knowledge that they weren't going to have their carefully thought out work deleted in its entirety.
[edited by: Michael_Anthony at 5:11 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2007]
that if a thread contains some obviously promotional posts, that these alone are edited/deleted by the mods, rather than the recent heavy handed approach where the whole thread, good posts and all, is deleted outright.
Sounds like a perfectly resonable request (except where the OP itself is promotional).
[edited by: oddsod at 5:33 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2007]
Make it like a school, not a dictatorship.
Thanks for the compliment but there's more to address as a result of your response.
When I was a child I simply abided the rules of my parents house. When I was a teenager I started to rebell, question and resent their rules. When I felt a bit like I was an adult I moved out on my own, determining that I would live by my rules. Now that I'm older, when I go to my parents house, I accept their rules. It's their house, not mine, even though I once called it "my house, my home". I feel respect for their ways, as they live according to choices they have made and principals they choose, and I have an understanding of their ways that has been shaped by further experience and living and parenthood. I take that experience into other places, such as workpaces and forums.
Ultimately, a forum - even though it's a community - is always someone else's house. You either live by the rules of the house or build your own house.
The rules here are a bit different, which is why the place works - in it's own way. It attracts certaini folks and others run from it shouting epithets.
The nice thing about being connected to the WWW is that it makes it easy to move houses or even build your own.
Michael Anthony, the very fact that you resort to the word "dictatorship" suggests that for you it's time to move on and build your own house.
Then, after all that hard work and effort, you can be the person whom other's refer to as dictator - in your own house.
Even parents can occasionally admit that their approach may be wrong - I know as a parent myself that my children have taught me lots about myself, and that I don't know it all.
One learns very little as a dictator, much more as a child. And these parents have still got stuff to teach me, I'm sure.
A forum is supposed to be a place for discussion, not lecturing. An exchange of views, ideas, a conversation between professionals and which at the same time offers a welcoming attitude to newcomers. The "education" comes from participation, questioning, and personal testing and experience.
The concept of presenting a forum as a school is not just desperately infantilizing, but it would actively boost self-aggrandizing experts and diminish equally valuable but less experienced members. (This is not meant to diminish Webwork's valuable comments, but merely to add focus to the methodology). Would a forum which is merely a school be best for the long-term health of the discussion?
For the specific questions of moderator actions relating to particular threads which have been edited or deleted, it would be better to refer to the moderator or administrator in question or another administrator (for example BT or engine) via sticky mail if you are unhappy with the decision taken, in accordance with terms of service #24 [webmasterworld.com].
Blatant promotion shouldn't be allowed, it never has been. That includes comments like, "Join my program here, you'll make a killing!"...Or, dropping URL's. Like you said BT and Encyclo, once you start that it's a dangerous slippery slope that never ends.
I honestly was looking for good discussion when I posted that ROI thread. I admit when MA joined in it looked a little fishy, as the association between us became apparent. But let me be clear. I did not ask MA to participate in my thread, nor was I going to keep him from doing so. He has a lot of good information to offer himself. What ensued in terms of Sticky Mail and mass thread deletion had me a little baffled and surprised. Why? Because instantly I was painted as a "villain". I wasn't given the chance to explain myself, or what had happened. I wasn't given the chance to declare that MA and myself hadn't secretly met/discussed before hand that we would "tag team" and try to "fool" newbies into joining our programs. That was Not the intent. Yet, I might as well have been guilty before being proven innocent.
Now, I will be reluctant to post anywhere. Even though I feel like I have a lot of knowledge and good information to offer. Some may welcome that news. But I think it's unfortunate. We were all newbies once...and we all have benefited from this place. To make forum members who have been around a while and who have a lot to offer feel like criminals before they even post is just wrong.
It's against the TOS, but I wish I could post the Sticky message that I got from a certain admin, to show you how scathing it was was...considering I had never EVER been "accused" of doing something like that before.
Anyways, let's get back to good conversation about how we can make the aff/sales forum a great place to contribute and share good ideas again.
Dave.
A forum is supposed to be a place for discussion, not lecturing.
Some of the very best WebmasterWorld discussions are kicked off by 'a lecture'. You know the ones: those long and detailed authoratative posts. That said, so long as people are allowed to reply a forum will never be a lecture.
The "education" comes from participation, questioning, and personal testing and experience.
Slight twist of the kaleidoscope, different outcome: The "education" comes from context - a philosophical, prinicipal, rules and operational contextual framework. If we didn't operate in a context of education WebmasterWorld would likely look like all the other forums that offer participation, questioning, testing, sharing of experience. We don't, and I say we don't because of a) a strong anti-promotional policy; and, b) a committment to conversation in an educational context, one that does a decent job of rooting out BS by virtue of participatory dialogue amongst a goodly number of professionals, professionals that I say are drawn here in large part by the context of professionalism and education, not promotion.
The concept of presenting a forum as a school is not just desperately infantilizing, but it would actively boost self-aggrandizing experts and diminish equally valuable but less experienced members.
I'm not certain Aristotle or Socrates would agree. If your construct of "school" is grammar school then yes, it's a spot on statement. Of course that's me presenting an extreme interpretation to challenge the conclusions you draw about school being infantilizing. "School", well executed, can also be empowering. I guess it's partly a function of who runs the school and in what manner, but this is all a bit too much of an abstraction. I do so love abstractions, just not the ones that don't empower concrete action, so . . must . . transition . . before Dilbertesque moment is further perpetuated . .
So far as self-aggrandizing experts that's something I love about forums: The minute one puts one's self out there as an expert the certain gravity of public participation starts to exert itself.
This is not meant to diminish Webwork's valuable comments, but merely to add focus to the methodology.
Me? Unfocused? Never.
Would a forum which is merely a school be best for the long-term health of the discussion?
I'm not certain how that would ever happen. It's a somewhat mystical statement to me. Care to explain, teacher, the evolutionary process whereby a webpresence generated by forum software begets what anyone would refer to as "merely a school"? Pedants only? No student contributions? All books and desks and class schedules? I'm at a loss. Please elaborate. ;-P (Yep, it's a school fershur, and my middle name is trouble. Go ahead. You're an admin. Send me to detention. I double dare you. :-P :-P)
And yes, my fellow WebmasterWorld members, even moderators get sent to detention, get upbraided, get politely told to sit down and shut-up at times . . so, my point being, don't take it too hard that it happens. It happens to all of us, me too, as well it should from time to time, lest we confuse ourselves with Brett.* Overseeing dialogue - moderation - is an imperfect art executed in an imperfect medium - human communication and human psyches - so show a little mercy to your fellow human beings who struggle against the frailties of their humanity. I don't know any dictators here who don't struggle to ask "Am I doing the right thing or going about it in the right way or for the right reasons?"
*Reigning in Brett is Mrs. Tabke's job. You ever see a nurse give orders? Scary when they combine orders with "the look". Yes, Mrs. Tabke.
[edited by: Webwork at 8:16 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2007]
and in nice plain english ..J ..shut the * up and stop letting yourself be used as their mouthpeice ..while you work out your angst ( they were asked for concrete non selfserving suggestions ..they didnt have any ...the rest of us know their history ..from threads now deleted that you never saw and they will deny the existance of ..so we never expected anything other than more smoke and more mirrors from them .they stalled ) ..and then you jumped in wanting to crucify yourself in an argument with the other mods and admins here for reasons more to do with outside here and rebellion and finding yourself than anything in this thread ..
familiarise yourself with the full background to the specific breif and individuals under discussion before posting ..and before deciding to try to plant your cross here on this hill and daring admins to come up with the nails ..because as a friend and not an admin nor a mod nor a member of Bretts family ..
i'm telling you ..you want to bleed ..start your own thread ..
and that pains me immensely to post that to a friend ..
walk away ..take a break ..it pains me to see you being used ..and that you walked into it ..it pains me also to see the kick in the teeth that your post gives to Marcia , Eljefe and his co mods in the aff fora ..and all the others who try to keep this place as clean as it has been til now ..and whose integrity and commitment has been called into question by those only interested in self promotion ..
and it pains me so much more to have to say that in public ..
you make a crap troll ..some of us can still see the tears ..
admins ..Brett ..your choice if you leave this post in eventually ..i'd have locked the thread when the towel was thrown in in post #:3235003 but you let it run so here we are ..i just wish the vermin werent witness ..i wont be posting again in this thread ..my position is known ..J ..you want to shout at me ..call ..i'm still your mate ..M
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 12:49 am (utc) on Jan. 30, 2007]
I've routinely checked into the WebmasterWorld Affiliate Forum. It IS a fairly quiet place. I think it could buzz, as an educational place, but that likely would require a change of mind:
"Me too" as the bishop said to the actress
Forget the rest, that is the core of the problem with the Affiliate Forum
