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That is to say, should one be checking to see if the sites are out of the sandbox regularly or only when they know there is a major Google update? :)
Thanks
Mc
>Do you think all new external links are sandboxed or just some new external links?
I think all. Google wants to stop new or old sites hitting the top serp positions quickly via bought links and also wants to have time to examine new sites before it allocates full pr from the link. The sandbox buys them time to run other spiders/algos through the site. They probably have decided that new sites never deserve top positions in competitive searches until they have proven themselves, so they sandbox them. They want a period of time to see a number of links slowly being attributed to a new site and from different types of sites and ip's. Once this 'natural' linking pattern has been seen, they take the site seriously. An established site linking to another established site is subject to the same 'sandbox' with the full effect of the link phasing in over time.
>Do you think this could relate to topic sensitive page rank calculations (just a thought)?
This is where hilltop kicks in, which is where I believe the confusion over sandbox is. There is two new tactics at play. Once a new site has been around for a month or two, it may have passed all the tests via sandbox. It may have 'natural' links in which conforms to a profile that google believes shows a genuine site, like varied links in from directories, links pages, 'authority sites' etc. and the site is seen to have fresh content, original content and no spammy tactics. It then can rank high IF it qualifies according to hilltop. A search takes place for 'widgets' and 10,000 pages appear in the results. These by default have the theme 'widgets'. Only links from these sites in the results count, unless the search term is not competitive so that hilltop cannot be applied. Sites that have links from within these results coming from a nice mix of 'hub sites' and 'authority sites' will rank well. It is very difficult to actively seek and acquire these links via link exchanges. Firstly, exchanging links in itself is probably of little benefit if they are recipricol. Google is placing more importance on one way links which suggests a 'true recommendation'. Secondly, trying to get the mix of different ip's linking to you from different styles of pages and with varied on theme anchor text plus 'broad match' words plus links from pages with the relevant title etc. etc. is a tall order. Add to that the fact that the pages linking to you will also need relevant links in to make them a 'hub' or 'authority' and it all gets very complicated. The only effective way to achieve this is to have good content and let it happen naturally.... which takes time.
I guess that 90% of webmasters here are launching sites with link exchanges and links from their own other sites that just do not help in the 'hilltop' scenario. Older sites have acquired the 'natural' link structure required, hence they are usually doing OK. The older sites that have dropped never pulled in these links over time.
To sum up, if your site has been around for a few months then you are probably not in sandbox. New links to your site are constantly being phased in over time, whether you are an old or new site. Untill you acquire the full value for links from sites appearing in the same search results as yourself, then you will never rank well. The sites that link to you need to have a good 'profile' as well, be it high pr or deemed a 'hub' or 'authority' for the search phrase in question.
The key to ranking well is now time and quality. Time to acquire the full effects of new links in and quality of content to attract links that you can never manufacture or fake. Internal linking is not subject to this time delay thus new pages on an established site rank well and quickly because the linking page has the status to qualify within hilltop and immediately pass full benefit to the new page if it is also relevant for the search term. Internal linking is treated in a very different way to external links, so recipricol links and ip is not an issue.
To sum up, if your site has been around for a few months then you are probably not in sandbox.
Mhes, in the light of all the evidence, albeit circumstancial, to the contrary?
Web design is (thankfully!) not my only occupation. In actual fact it is more of a pre-occupation. But I have been building small business websites now for about three years so I have developed some knowledge of what to expect with regard to ranking.
None of the sites I have built since February this year have developed any Google traffic, bearing in mind that most of my clients are generally not looking for high traffic, having mainly on-line brochure site. I sometimes tweak these sites for nothing and the client's often don't even know I have been doing it. This is because I like to see them gaining some sort of ranking and I can say quite categorically that this is no longer happening. All of the sites I created before this time continue to do well.
I will stand by what I said in an earlier post.
This is not anti spam, it's anti new content. "New" in any other commercial context is attractive and Google would never deliberately restrict all new sites from featuring. This would be committing commercial suicide. Also, if this was an effective spam measure Google, as a commercial entity, would be bragging about it everywhere, "Google announces amazing new spam prevention technology.", etc.
No, this is not correct. New content ranks well especially on a 'news site' where the spider visits often and gives new content a temporary boost.
You have to look at this from googles perspective. For 'widgets' they will have thousands of new content every day. They cannot put all this within the top serps. So the decision is easy, established and relevant sites which they know are OK get preference. These are sites with good links in. New sites have to earn that status and it takes time.
>....All of the sites I created before this time continue to do well.
Same experience here and our new sites are nowhere. The reason is simple, older sites have long established links in that pass full pr etc. The linking sites themselves will have been around a long time. They continue to get new links in without a webmaster asking for them and thus are continually ahead of the game. A new site has a long way to catch up, both in having their links fully counted and acquiring 'natural' new links. They will catch up but it will take a long time.
The google link: search is useless, an old site will have considerable links that never show and from other old sites... this is a big advantage.
Short version to get out of sandbox:
Look at top 100 SERPS and get some of those pages to link to you.
Can anybody confirm that this work?
New content ranks well especially on a 'news site' where the spider visits often and gives new content a temporary boost.
OK! I meant new content on new sites but I think you know what I meant ;)
You have to look at this from googles perspective. For 'widgets' they will have thousands of new content every day. They cannot put all this within the top serps. So the decision is easy, established and relevant sites which they know are OK get preference.
But this is just not happening. Sure, for a few searches the results are OK but the Googlebot still gorges itself on spammy sites. If Google "knows" (or thinks) that some of the established sites that I am seeing at the top of the results are "OK" then Google is doomed. But then Google may be be hoist by its own petard anyway. I mean its own Adsense scheme, which is the biggest single factor in the explosion of spam on the Internet.
