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I came across a website ranked #1 and I noticed that it has hundreds of incoming links coming from guestbooks. In fact, it looks like each guestbook entry is identical as if the posts were automated. My question is: wouldn't Google frown upon this? Does Google detect this sort of thing? Would Google punish the website for this?
Thanks,
Mark
the fickle public can change that in a matter of days.
The public may be fickle, but most probably don't think there is a problem with current Google results. Ignorance is bliss.
What can be fairer than FREE! I have given Google nothing, not a penny, cent or ruble in the last 5 years. So it begs the question, what do they owe me? Absolute didly...
You forgot business.com, bbci, etc etc
If you do ok in MSN, that's ok, I like the 85% not the 10%
That was not the point.
10% should not be ignored as you say, but MSN provide 100% on all pc's sold, with the msn search.
Being as msn are the undoubted kings of the web and pc ownership, how come the buyers of their machines stray to google for searches?
Not limited to MSN pc's mac users also use google?
This sounds like a praise for google, and was not the point of my original post.
You would think that it would be a Good Thing that I would tell anyone, which would include spammers, exactly how to get to #1 on competitive keywords via guestbook signing? Why spread this knowledge around as far and wide as possible? This would be like me posting to Usenet open proxies to assist e-mail spammers, or open Usenet servers to assist Usenet spammers. I've managed to get dozens of those closed with private e-mails to the right admins. I even hacked my ISP's Usenet server (one of the largest in the US), and found that anyone on the planet who knew the same hack could use it to spam. Rather than post this publicly, I e-mailed their head admin with the details, including the patch how to fix this security hole. It was quickly closed. I don't help spammers, I fight them.
Ummm, not exactly wide-open. Google forum charter: SPAM reporting issues. [webmasterworld.com]
Should Google PENALIZE sites with guestbook links? NO! If that was the case I could ruin my competition by spamming guestbooks with links to my competators ... making the guestbook spamming scene even worse than it is today.
Sites that rely on only guestbooks links are doing well today but will disappear VERY SOON.
I'll come out clean and admit it ... I did some guestbook spamming a couple of months ago myself. I did it only because I saw how well it was working for my top competators and before I was a member at WW.
Luckily my site should survive as guestbooks only account for about 10% of my in-bound links.
Google shouldnt penalize webmasters for following the lead of spammy webmasters that they are rewarding to this day.
You shouldn't survive for that reason, because as you pointed out any competitor could do this. Or, just anyone for reasons of spite, and revenge. One of my enemies [my guess being the same guy from Usenet who I have been flaming mercilessly for months; I am well known for my flaming skills on Usenet] signed my site to a bunch of guestbooks. Obviously by hand, and not a bot, since there are only dozens. Meaning most of my inbound links now are guestbooks. The reason being my sites are on such a narrow topic the number of webmasters with related sites can be counted on the fingers of both hands. Needless to say these are *very* non-competitive search terms; and all these sites are amateur like mine. Any semi-competent SEO could make top 10 on them so long could finagle half a dozen decent inbound links. If the majority of links to a site being guestbooks were enough to get a site banned, the vast majority of amateur sites could be hosed by anyone for any reason, or no reason at all, in just a few hours by searching for guestbooks and adding that site's URL. The solution is as simple as Go60Guy already stated: just have the algo ignore all guestbook links. Almost all guestbooks are running off the shelf software with obvious identifying signatures. Just add into the algo to ignore links on all pages that match the signature of a guestbook. To be honest, I was shocked that Google hadn't done this yet, and that spammers were getting to #1 on *very* competitive search terms with guestbooks. I overestimated Google in assuming they had already been ignoring all guestbook links.
not to drift off topic...
Maybe we should stop showing guestbooks in backlinks and people everywhere would feel better
Good idea. Either that or maybe write something about "guestbook signing" on your webmaster/seo guideline pages?
Now, how about a statement on what the graybar and PR0 definitively mean and we will be on a roll :)
And, what do you suggest that Google add there? If Google adds that they ignore guestbook links, that would just mean lots of people who have never even heard about the possibility that signing guestbooks could get you to the top of search engines would try it testing to see if they could beat Google's filters. Best for Google to filter quietly.
rfgdxm1, you'r probably right. Google should lower the shown or real Pagerank of guestbooks, even if they do not show up for backlinks, a high Pagerank is too tempting for most and ruins well intended guestbook communities.
Funny, this guestbook signing has been discussed at WebmasterWorld for probably a year, strange nothing substantial is been done about it.
I would advise against this, as this could would tip off spammers about guestbooks that managed to slip through the filters. If someone saw a guestbook with green in the toolbar they would know they hit pay dirt. However, I can see the point of doing this to cut down on the guestbook spamming. For anyone who hasn't, take a look at some random guestbooks. I've seen *many* that are totally flooded with spam. :( It does occur to me that even if Google manages to start successfully filtering out guestbooks, spammers will still do it hoping for click throughs from people reading them. Much like e-mail spammers count on the 1 in 1,000 people who visit the site, rather than just delete it.
>Funny, this guestbook signing has been discussed at WebmasterWorld for probably a year, strange nothing substantial is been done about it.
DEFINITELY odd. This is why I was so shocked to see sites scoring high on competitive keywords still. One possibility is that Google actually did try to do something about it, but didn't realize that their filters were buggy. Clearly, some sites are slipping under the radar and succeeding with guestbook spam.
I do not get it and if Google is talking where? I am interested in knowing what they did this time to make up such a mess?
All best
Hollywood
Thanks in advance!
Even if I am wrong in my assumptions maybe it works today but then leads to hanging yourself when the filters kick in?
Just thought I would raise this point, I am sure some of us here misslead on purpose, I do not but thats my own opinion.
Ciao ciao
Ranking this site #1 for this term should humiliate Google.
The FACT of the matter is this site signed all these (PR-decent) guestbooks with a hyperlink of their two word keyword. That is *it*. Guestbooks make them #1 (and top ten for one of the two words in the keyword phrase, the important one.)
That two word keyword is a $250,000,000 industry. There are less than twenty companies dividing up that entire amount. Sure, that isn't Google's concern really, but the fact that you assign the #1 rank to the site with the *least* credibility, the least coherent content, and the least genuine linking is simply terrible.
Guestbooks are a plague, and Google most certainly is not doing anything close to enough to deal with it.
And just for sport I'll send you another report on it.
Also the biggest negative of signing a guest book it that it cannot be reversed, you cannot some how remove the links from the guest book and its for the whole world to see what you have done & for the one’s who can understand why its done can – it’s a subject to report in forums/ Spam report etc.
> So I think it's a good time to mention that guestbooks showing in backlinks does not mean that they contribute much/any in scoring. Maybe we should stop showing guestbooks in backlinks and people everywhere would feel better. :) anyone, feel free to drop a report with the term; I'll be happy to check it out though.
GoogleGuy, I been writing to you several time about sub.domain spam and multiple domain spam but nothing seems to happen / I, some how, am convinced instead of using guest books, use of sub.domain & multiple domain strategy (not spam) its he best practice to get incoming links with anchor text, & Google loves them.
All my competitors been using them for years and are still on 1st page while I am spending one hand and one leg of business in adwords. As a long-term prospect I have recently bought 750+ domains and already started work on it…I am very confident that I will land up on the 1st page. And no will remove me from there even if I confess in writing to Google.
>Funny, this guestbook signing has been discussed at WebmasterWorld for probably a year, strange nothing substantial is been done about it.
vitaplease, just not guest book but I even multiple domains, sub domains, ODP Y! L$ listed expired domains, redirects, mirror sites linking each other etc.
Just as a side not - a few updates back I disappeared from Google and went on a rant (which I have apologized for) because I felt I had been banned for signing guestbooks. There was a discussion that may have been the cause back then - this only points out how wrong I am, but I have not, nor will I ever use my url to sign another guestbook. As you know RF - my site is getting killed by spam sites and shady dealings, but I won't lower myself to their standards just as I know you won't. I've still got to believe that one day we will wake up, and as Google Guy mentioned, the spam filters will FINALLY have been applied and the SERP'S will not look anything like they do now.
But once you discover it is not a good idea you can always complain in a very loud voice about how somebody else did it just to get you penalised.
Even if Google / GoogleGuy announces that guestbooks are worth absolutely nada, people will still do it, as they won't believe that Google can detect all guestbooks, so they still might get something from it.
Our company guestbook was looking pretty nice a couple of months ago, with comments from happy customers. The last 2 months it has been overloaded with sp*m, and I have had to remove the link to it.
So, here I go to sign a few guestbooks.....;)
Another even more competitieve search: 7.4 m: #2 now is guestbook sopammer (ONLY guestbook entries) after non-commercial site ... my roygh estimation is about $100K - $150K per month.
not bad ... so I think this IS a problem; and I completely agree with rfgdxm1.
