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I came across a website ranked #1 and I noticed that it has hundreds of incoming links coming from guestbooks. In fact, it looks like each guestbook entry is identical as if the posts were automated. My question is: wouldn't Google frown upon this? Does Google detect this sort of thing? Would Google punish the website for this?
Thanks,
Mark
1. How often can you submit to OPD?2. Is it possible to submit all my pages or just my home page?
3. My adult webmaster resource page is a sub domain on my site
www.adult-webmaster-resource.mydomain.com so is it possible to submit it into a deferent category than my home page?Help! Help! Help!
1.You should submit once, and then wait at least one month then go ask at resource-zone.com why you haven't been added yet. Sometimes you can get a local listing and a national listing if appropriate.
2. and 3. Yes, its possible to submit them all, but quite useless. The rule of thumb is one page per domain. However, if you would like to submit additional pages that are substantially different from your homepage (or other submitted page) and offer unique content otherwise unavailable on the web then you may get an additional listing. There are members here with sites that have dozens of ODP listings. There are also members here that have waited over a year with quality sites and still can't get in.
IMO the ODP is a glaring black eye for Google and should be avoided at all costs. The fact that it is suggested you should submit to DMOZ in order to get crawled by Google is absolutely ludicrous. There are zillions of equally powerful links that you can request and be indexed by Google in 14 hours. It can easily take over a year with ODP.
I did it and I have 5 banned web sites. I know that they are banned, as I run the same link directry on 2 of them and on some others and these another now are amoung top 10, and with guestbooks links are nowhere or about 500.
So I KNOW that you will be banned for spamming guestbooks!
Not only "not counted links", but your site could be banned, if you have competitors, which just will fill the spam report and somehow convinience the google that it was you, who spam guestbooks.
GoogleGuy has admitted that excessive guestbook links will cause them to take a close look at a site.
Did you have any links other than guestbooks?
And they were banned just at the same time, when I submitted guestbooks (I mean on the next update). It was November 2002, and they are still banned ...
P.S.: I supose this is absolutely OK, as I think that google shall be absolutely "spam not tolerant" and shall encourage users not to use spam and ban the persons who use it. I just was too young in SEO that time :)
November was right around the time where GoogleGuy was saying that they definitely *do not* ban on just guestbook entries because a competitor can do that to you.
You might want to try and figure out what really happened before you have some other sites get in trouble.
You can be BANNED for using GUESTBOOKS links!
This is yet another urban legend.
I have never seen a site being banned (PR0ed) for signing large number of guestbooks only and this is an observation based on at least 10 domains in last 3 months. The most that happened was that PR of one site was cut from 6 to 4. Most likely it was a manual penalty.
IMO the way to go with guestbooks is that make a clean site. Get 15-20 PR4 or above non-guestbook links. Then go for guestbooks signing 'campaign'. In the worst case your site appearing on page-1 of a competitive keyword will be reported by the competition. Then it will be reviewed by google, which will result in its PR being manually cut. This process of manual review takes 1-2 months. So as a guestbook spammer target the keywords where it is possible to make quick buck in one month. If manual penalty is applied to a domain then it is safely dumped for good.
This may sound unethical but a significant percentage of sites listed in very competitive SERPs use one questionable technique or another.
the PR is NOT 0. It is PR2 and PR1 on them ...
however the PR will NEVER be more then PR1 or PR2 whatever I do.
Now I have about 6 PR4 incoming links to 1 of them, about 60 PR3 links and a lot of PR2 and PR1 not showing links ... this is WITHOUT guestbook links.
I know, what I'm saying ... as I said I market some other web sites. I do similar marketing strategy (I don't copy context or linking directories - they are different). And these other sites have PR4, PR5 and on sj I see PR6.
These 5 web sites still have PR2 and PR1 WITHOUT any changes whatever I do. This is BANNED, or name it how you would like to name it :)
There are some individuals that think posting to guestbooks is a good idea, and others say it isn’t. I have been running a well-known site that performs these services for people, and have refused over 50 paying requests to perform this service. Each time I refused a customer, it was because they inquired about the guestbook pages PR. Do your homework, and you’ll decide it isn’t worth the risk. I started this service a little over a year ago, and never intended for people to be so 'gung ho' about it. It was meant for those who had pyramids and get-rich-quick schemes; those that could care less about the long term, but wanted traffic (and income) NOW. Those are the individuals that spend the money, and those were the targets; not the Webmaster that was trying to make his site 'better for search engines'.
A lot of people claim that I am a SEO, but am nothing of the sort. I haven't the first clue how to make any site rank in the top. As a matter of fact, Google doesn't even like me anymore! It's hard to find a link to my site in Google. Oddly, there are thousands of non-guestbook links to my site that don’t even show up. Some are affiliates, some are Webmaster articles, and some are banner advertisements. Yet, I am virtually unknown to Google SER’s. It appears that none of my clients have been affected in a negative way. Perhaps Google has punished me for bypassing their system, but my clients have retained amnesty due to possible side effects. There really isn't any safe way to punish those who have used or will use my services. Google is probably afraid that my services will then be used by disgruntled Webmasters to punish their competitor's.
Although Google is denying my site from appearing in the top SER, they do allow me to advertise with them. That too may change at some point. Due to all of the PR battles and bypassing their algo’s, I believe it’s just a matter of time until Google yanks my advertising; at least for this particular site. However, because of targeted advertising with Overture, Ah-Ha, etc, I'm reaching a large part of the Internet; without Google. Anything on Google is a plus, but I don't expect it to be there forever. I do believe that increased PR is no longer an option with GuestBook Submissions, as I can see proof on about a hundred sites.
My advice to you and other hard working webmasters would be to avoid the GuestBook Submission Service. It should never be relied upon for PR, only for traffic. Although it's highly unlikely that Google will punish you as they have done me I doubt you'll be getting any higher in the food chain either. Besides, it’s an immoral and twisted form of SPAM.
I’ve noticed that some people wonder if there are even that many guestbooks around. I can assure you that there are literally millions, and I’ve posted to just about all of them for those that have wanted it. From bouncing between proxies and spoofing the HTTP_REFERER’s, the scripts have gotten the URL’s through. At the end, the scripts compress, upload, and email the clients when it’s complete. The actual log file does show each and every posted guestbook address, so the client can verify that it did actually work.
One more thing, and then I’ll back down. Just because Google allows me to advertise on their site doesn’t mean they support what I do. As of right now, the only way Webmasters can find me is to actually look for the particular service. A Webmaster can no longer stumble upon it as they have done before. In a way, everyone may be better of because of it. Webmasters that are unaware are better off because there are no temptations, while those that are interested have no problems finding it. Your thoughts?
These 5 web sites still have PR2 and PR1 WITHOUT any changes whatever I do. This is BANNED, or name it how you would like to name it
That is not banned. grey bar and out of the index is banned. You *may* have been penalized, but you have not been banned.
The links you describe could very well give you only a PR2 They certainly are not enough to give you a PR 5 or 6.
for me it is interesting post ;) Thank you.
Not often I can see the posts from companies who spam anything ... of course not only for PR but also for traffic (I don't think my email addresses are spammed for PR purposes). Usually they are just quite about the technique and the fact they are spammers.
P.S.
I'm not sure, if it's offtopic - remove it.
Yes, I know they are. And I know that this is considered spam. I'm curious to see what happens with the ad-words:) The same Google account that we speak of also uses ad-words for 'moral' domains. I'm curious to see if Google drops the whole account, if any, or just the 'immoral' campaign.
PS. Excuse these posts if they are off topic. I imagine they could be moved, right?
Thank you writing me back & I’m more than happy to see you posting this Forum!
If I have to do it, I have to ask my staff in China help me. As this is toooo time consuming...
A spam report followed by a hand check minimizes your luck!
One of my sites has been banned for too many guestbook entries! The penalty because of Guestbooks was confirmed by Googleguy, because I asked him what's up with my site and he said You signed too much guestbooks!
At other times, he's said there's nothing a competitor can do to get you a penalty in Google (which, by definition, would include guestbooks).
I'd guess that penalties for signing guestbooks are manually applied (rather than being applied automatically by an algorithm), and that human judgment is involved. That's probably true of most manually applied penalties in Google. It's like anything else: If you're a cop and you see a guy in a Bekins uniform carrying a TV out to a moving van in broad daylight, you probably leave him alone. But if you're a cop and you see a guy climbing down a fire escape with a TV at 2 a.m., or if you know he was busted for stealing TVs six months ago, you're less likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with Yidaki and Europeforvisitors, if Google has reason to believe, through human intervention, that you spammed guestbooks they may ‘get’ you as they have done me. Don’t know. I’m really leaning on the idea that they may be rejecting guestbooks somehow, but not penalizing unless they have probable cause to do so. For all I know, the senior here may not have been the only one to mention it to Google. There may have been many other complaints over the last year or so. Djgreg, how many books did you hit? A million or two? When I get caught up, I’ll probably build a whole new test domain and compare the results each month AFTER it has received some decent ‘normal’ PR, and then turn myself in:) That may help determine if Europeforvisitors is right; which I would guess he is.
One of my sites has been banned for too many guestbook entries! The penalty because of Guestbooks was confirmed by Googleguy, because I asked him what's up with my site and he said You signed too much guestbooks!
That is not exacly the way I remember it.
He said something about the guestbooks and several borderline on page things. Offsite spam is not enough to get you banned, and borderline onsite probably will not get you in trouble. Combine the two and you are playing in a dangerous area if there is a hand check.
You were banned *partly* because of your guestbook signing. Your ban was not *only* because you signed guestbooks.
Your statement is misleading when the discussion is about the singlular act of guestbook signing.
"djgreg, I noticed that several months ago, your domain was near the top of the list in terms of numbers of guestbook signed. At that time, signing guestbooks was a less-discussed technique. That could have been a factor for your domain. "
I think your case differs in many ways from most.
A site who has 100-200 guestbook links mixed in with the rest, doesn't really compare to a site with 50,000 guestbook links.
As has been said before, it's too easy for a competitor to fill guestbooks with your links to get you banned.
If they start ignoring guestbook links...well, it was nice while it lasted... :)
How many other links did you have? If the VAST majority of your PR comes from guestbooks, it makes sense to pull a site.
I also notice that you are not quoting any of the rest of the discussion about your ban, but you never paid any attention to anything else once you got it in your head that you were banned *only* because of the guestbooks (which, by the way, you have admitted to signing)
IIRC that thread correctly, GG seemed to imply that at some earlier time, the Google abuse department had a different policy about guestbook signing. My interpretation was someone whacked the abuse department with a cluestick about how easy it was to sign competitor's URLs to guestbooks. Or, for that matter someone doing it who dislikes you just for reasons of spite, malice and revenge. Not only is guestbook spamming more well known now, we are at the point companies are advertising they will spam any URL you want literally to thousands of guestbooks. Currently, getting a competitor's or enemy's site signed to thousands of guestbooks requires nothing more than whipping out your credit card. Hmm...I notice that Adword is back for that company bragging about spamming guestbooks I complained about. Google hasn't done anything yet. Although, they may want to first contact this company first before acting.
The proper way to deal with a site with lots of guestbook links is to just ignore them. Either automatically by the algo, or in a hand check. This way if a competitor or enemy signs your URL to a lot of guestbooks, then your site's non-guestbook links are still counted.
And, before anyone gets any ideas, DON'T stickymail me asking for the details. If I broadcast this, then spammers would know exactly what guestbooks to spam, and could use this example to hone their spamming techniques. Also someone, my guess is my enemy from Usenet who also regularly e-mail bombs me with hundreds of spam e-mails, already for the old fashioned reasons of spite, malice and revenge added my URL to several dozen guestbooks. I'd rather not have him make it 400 more. :( However, if any of the moderators here doesn't believe I am telling the truth, I'll reveal the example to them so long as they promise not to broadcast the specifics. I didn't believe myself guestbook spamming could work on highly competitive searches. I overestimated Google. :(
