Iced Tea Freezing problem

Somebody's gotta have an idea

[SEOMike]

I can't figure out why the only thing that ever freezes in my fridge is the iced tea. There's milk, water, juice, beer, pop and the ONLY thing that freezes is the freakin TEA! I was pretty mad today when I went to pour a glass while mowing the yard and got nothing.

Don't say it's because it's way in the back by the vent... no, no... it's right up front next to the bottled water and milk.

I can't figure it out... any ideas? It was a full gallon jug frozen SOLID!

[grandpa]

It would likely be due to the Colligative properties of the tea. I know most people put sugar in their tea, and not salt. But if you were to add a tablespoon of salt then perhaps it won't be so quick to freeze?

This link might help, or maybe not...
[misterguch.brinkster.net...]

[trillianjedi]

As grandpa points out, different liquids have different freezing points. Your tea apparently has a high freezing point. You might be able to adjust it.

Alcohol might work - in small quantity so you don't get too worse for wear on it. I'm not sure how it mixes with tea though, or if it would just float to the top?

TJ

[snowman]

Or try another brand of Iced Tea?

He he....now it's really "Iced Tea" eh? Maybe it's just living up to it's name? :)

[SEOMike]

I've thought of these things too. I brewed it myself so it's not like it's from a factory with a lot of additives in it. I can't imagine why it'd have a different freezing point except for maybe all of the tea in it. Tea like Coffee is just an... emulsification... (I believe) little particles floating around in the water. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't like sweet tea so there's no sugar, I don't believe that salt would be a good addition :) but maybe ALCOHOL would be good! Might make the lawn mowing much more interesting! ;)

From Grandpa's reading:

Strong Kool Aid freezes at a lower temperature than weak Kool Aid

I like my tea strong so logic would follow that my tea would have a lower freezing point of weak tea... or water for that matter.

Still really curious of the freezing issue. Maybe it has something to do with the specific gravity of the liquid after the tea is added... I don't know.

[grandpa]

Now you have my curiosity up. Maybe you could try making different tea blends and seeing if one of those won't freeze. There's oolong, green tea, black tea, and tons of teas that I look at but don't understand. (I grew up with Nestea). Anyway, you're on track with the suspended particles, so I'm thinking different teas will behave differently.

Would also be curious to know if the alcohol works. Not for myself, however, since I a tee-totaler :) But for reference..

[SEOMike]

I'm very interested as well. I'll set up an experiment this weekend. I'll use the exact same containers, try 3 different teas plus a different strength of my regular tea. I'll also try containers of my regular tea w/ salt, sugar, and alcohol added. I'll also set up a "control" of water.

Should be interesting results, but as for exactly what is going on... I still might not know conclusively. Oh well, it'll be a fun experiment.

[trillianjedi]

Nothing like a controlled foo experiement! I look forward to reading the results ;-)

since I a tee-totaler

Maybe that should be tea-totaler?

sorry

TJ

[grandpa]

I probably deserved that

[Automan Empire]

Make sure your experiment includes temperature readings, of the tea containers and other fridge contents too.
The tea froze before water? That could be quite a serindipitous discovery! I remember 15-20 years ago, the ski industry was rather excited about a bacterium that could supposedly raise the freezing point of water significantly to assist the costly artificial-snowmaking process. If something like tea could do that, it would have tremendous commercial potential. Think of all the great scientific discoveries at the kitchen table!
Good luck!
-Automan

[ska_demon]

emulsification

Maybe you mean solution. An emulsion is basically oil combined with water. Like margerine.

Milk freezes lower than tea because it has lactose in it. It will freeze but at a lower temperature. Carbonated sweet drinks are designed to be liquid below the freezing point of water. This is so you can drink them very cold. Similar to beer in some respects as it contains small amount of Glycol (anti freeze).

You are right sbout the solution thing tho. Certain solubles in tea will freeze at a temp above that of water.
I belive tannin solution will freeze above the point that water will.

I dunno

Ska

[trillianjedi]

That could be quite a serindipitous discovery!

Well, this [odur.let.rug.nl] happened in Winter and I see no evidence of ice-skaters on the stamps ;-)

TJ

[ann]

Maybe it is the container you are using.

Glass gets super cold but I don't believe that is true for plastic.

Just a thought.

Ann

[monkeythumpa]

Glass and plastic feel like different temperatures, even though they will be the same after a period in the fridge. Their relative abilities to conduct heat is why they feel different.

[digitalghost]

I love Foo. Let me know how the experiment turns out. Look up freezing-point depression and Van't Hoff before ya start.

I do have a solution to the problem, pardon the pun. ;) They're called curtain climbers, rug-rats, grub snatchers, etc. The addition of two of the aforementioned to your environment will ensure that no liquids remain in a refrigeration device long enough to get cold, let alone freeze.

[Leosghost]

Plain distilled water actually behaves as though it were a melted and thus liquid example of a crystaline metal ..so if you add tanin ..it's pretty much bound to be even weirder ..just as plain water it is the ultimate solvant on this planet...

The fact that the structure of ice means that it takes up more space than liquid water ( normally if you reduce the amount of motion or vibration at atomic level you make the volume occupied smaller ) is already an anomally ...

You might try adding a sprig or two of fresh peppermint ..that should make it freeze at the same temp as normal water ...

[SEOMike]

The addition of two of the aforementioned [kids] to your environment will ensure that no liquids remain in a refrigeration device long enough to get cold, let alone freeze.

My little girl isn't allowed to have any of my tea... too much caffeine and she's only 16 months old!

The experiment has begun. I've got six of the same containers (similar to the one that froze before), one with plain water, one with STRONG tea, one with weak tea one with a different brand of tea, one with a little salt and one with sugar. I'm going to try to remember to take a temperature hourly as well as note weather or not they are freezing.

Should have results by the weekend's end. (weekendend? ;) )

[grandpa]

weekendend?

Sunday night/Monday morning.

Looking ahead, if they all freeze have we learned anything? And what if none of them freeze? In either case it might be best to turn it over to a high-schooler as a science fair project. Here's hoping it doesn't go that far.....

Personally, I don't plan on doing anything else until the results are in.

[tbear]

<ducks>
Did anyone try this with coffee?
</ducks>

[SEOMike]

And what if none of them freeze?

LOL... that's EXACTLY what happened. All of them were still liquid and all of them the same temperature. Maybe it's got something to do with the quantities. My wife wouldn't allow 5 gallons worth of different liquids in the fridge, so I scaled down a lot.

Unless someone has better luck... I'll have to wait until my 16 month old is ready for a science fair...

[akmac]

A watched pot never...

[graywolf]

If I remeber from my edumacation correctly, you can change the ratio of elements in a solution and raise or lower it's eutectic point.

For example pure water freezes at one temperature. Pure anti-freeze freezes at a lower one. Combine the two and the freezing point lowers even farther. There is an optimal ratio of water to antifreeze that achieves the lowest possible freezing point.

For all you nitpickers and physics majors, yes inside of a cars cooling system pressure plays a role, but it also complicates grasping the concept of a solution.

[grandpa]

I'm almost ready to believe that this was a heat related problem :)

while mowing the yard

With so much theory and conjecture, some of it probably right, we're stuck with not knowing for sure. SEOMike I'll be taking your question out into the world and when I do find a definitive answer you will be the first to know. Somebody's gotta have an idea

[limbo]

Ha ha Great thread :)

<devils advocate>
Was you tea jug next to the coolant? I have frozen milk like this before now.
</devils advocate>

[edited by: limbo at 8:33 am (utc) on Aug. 25, 2005]

[limbo]

blip

[trillianjedi]

>>Was you tea jug next to the coolant? I have frozen milk like this before now. <<

No - SEOMike mentioned in the first post that wasn't the reason.

Mistifying eh?