Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 188.8.131.52
Forum Moderators: martinibuster
..though that yahoo info page that now refers only to "third party PAID listings" may be a portent that Google is being replaced for web searches. by say a bigger overture prescence or inktomi or ls or any PAID listings provider. I wonder if Y! will allow more unpaid listings. At the moment yahoo directory is full of coporate and commercial results so that looking for information is frustrating. If Y! goes the way of almost all paid listings, how long will Y! users take to convert to Google proper, ATW, Teoma or wisenut? Will they notice the commercialization of the index? Or is Y! indeed forgetting about non-commercial search as a key component of their offering, taking money while it runs it down, and turns their attention to portalish type things?
Curioser and Curioser...
"These results show a combination of relevant web pages and web sites provided by our third-party search partners and the Yahoo! Directory."makes me think they'll continue to have a third party spider involved. Not going to purchase/develop their own technology.
"Third-party search partners may provide listings for which the third party has received payment to review and/or include the site within its database."You can read this 2 ways. Either they're planning to use somebody like Ink or Fast that has a PFI or maybe it's just an open ended statement ("may provide") that things may change in the future.
Having Google drive the results doesn't make sense for a company that's historically followed the money at the expense of quality results.
Does what? Changes their "What are the different sections of the search results page?" help text? And replaces Google's snippets with Y descriptions? And changes their "Summary ¶ Categories ¶ Web Sites ¶ Web Pages ¶ News" headings?
I think not.
The Web section were the default results, and it was pure Google rank with Yahoo titles and descriptions for the sites also in the Yahoo Directory. The Directory was normal Yahoo results.
This is very strange. The effect on Yahoo's paid inclusion and sposorships will be very neggative. Why bother. Google get's you 90% of Yahoo with this new format.
Dumb move for Yahoo I think.
Maybe there is more to this. I was thinking that maybe they will supliment it with AV or INKs new trusted feed programs (CPC) removing the Google deep links when they can sub in an INK or AV listing.
Now that would be very smart. They would have the most complete listings, and they would be getting paid for some of the the SERPS.
What is the value of your Yahoo! listing if your are removed from third parties index for some reason. I am sure we have all experienced that some time or another whether it was server problems, unethical practices or just plain old getting dropped for a month.
"In addition, you'll see a "More sites about" link at the bottom of the listing. Click on this link to browse a collection of similar sites in the Yahoo! Directory."
This really degrades the value of a Yahoo! listing. If this info from help page does indeed stick, why would any of us pay $299 + annual fee to be listed as third string, below sponsored and serps? Understood that keyword-keyword-keyword-keyword-.com domains flood directory but it seems foolish to eliminate revenue of over 650 new sites daily @ $299 = $194,350 daily and almost 80 million annual, with out including annual renewal fee.
Yahoo! needs to implement a new model without taking too much away from its roots, its directory.....
IMHO I feel this change will put Yahoo! on the way out, like Excite, AV ect. especially if they use Inktomi or FAST. I am involved in some of the more competetive industries online and have only seen FAST results as junk, loaded with SPAM, redirects and cloaking. I also see a strong dominance of UK websites, leaving US surfers little to choose from on first page of results. Surfers will sway to different engines. We have seen this downfall before.
Are some of you thinking that this change is a prelude to dropping Google?! I'm thinking that if Google were kicked out of Yahoo, there would be little incentive for Google to maintain the exceptional PR boost of a Yahoo directory listing. Without the PR boost, Yahoo Express would be hammered.
I don't know if Yahoo and Google like each other. But they don't need to. It's just a marriage of convenience and money.
Why Yahoo!, why?
But, I think those changes would get a lot more people to use Yahoo search and improve the "stickiness" of Yahoo's site overall.
Right now, the Google and Yahoo directory options provide the best search results, in my opinion. So why not concentrate on what's working for searchers? The current default page, however, is (for the keyword phrases I follow) a complete hodgepodge of sites.
Anyway, that's what I'm thinking this morning.
I agree....but that is more of the "if we build it, they will come" reasoning that went out with dotcom IPOs. They need to monotize their search in a direct way. Having the best search is useless if you are just replicating what Google already has.
I think most webmaster will look at this and say "I'm not paying Yahoo $299 when I can get into Google for nothing, and Yahoo isn't even going to show my listing in their main results" If they want to spend money for position, they will see the Overture listings as a more direct method. Yahoo is shooting Express submit and their sposored listings in the head if they stick with the Google SERPS.
This benefits Overure more than anyone.
While Yahoo has currently reverted back to it's normal listings, the help page cited earlier in this thread is still live and plainly states
Web Page Matches
These results show a combination of relevant web pages and web sites provided by our third-party search partners and the Yahoo! Directory. This is the default style in which results appear.
So they start the process by first switching to this new format for their SERPs. They do two things to try and control the initial shock and backlash.
1) Claim that the new format contains a mixture of both directory and non-directory results. Remember the recent switch to using the Yahoo title and description for Yahoogle results? Poof..instant directory and search results "integration"
I can hear them already "No, we haven't gotten rid of the directory...we've simply integrated the web page and web sites results".
2) Continue to provide a link to the web sites section for those that only want directory results.
After a few months, once the public has accepted the new change, they continue to downgrade the importance of the directory until, eventually, it's gone.
I think most webmaster will look at this and say "I'm not paying Yahoo $299 when I can get into Google for nothing...
Lingerboy: True, but some other webmasters will think, "I'll pay Yahoo $299 and maybe my PR will go up one point and that would be a great bargain."
I don't know how it would shake out, overall.
Learningcurve, I agree that some of the more astute SEOs/webmasters, like yourselfs, will make the connection b/t a Yahoo listing and PR, but the masses, where the money is, will not get it. Yahoo is going to see their revenue errode in this area if they swap in Google for the SERPs.
Does anybody have a screenshot of the help page before the Yahoo results briefly changed?
[edited by: Quinn at 7:07 pm (utc) on Oct. 9, 2002]
∑ Tuesday Oct. 8 - 1032
∑ Monday Oct. 7 - 726
∑ Sunday Oct. 6 - 30
∑ Saturday Oct. 5 - 27
∑ Friday Oct. 4 - 736
∑ Thursday Oct. 3 - 671
∑ Wednesday Oct. 2 - 893
I reckon almost all of these were paid for... yes... that's well over $1M per week.
Are they going to risk a big chunk of that? Well they might if the returns are good on where they are going to, but are they going to be in excess of $50M pa? I doubt it.
Even if they were, the smart move would be to try and get the best of both worlds. Keep the Directory high profile AND bring in new money through other routes.
I just can't see them dropping or significantly de-valuing the Directory. Then again... I am assuming a degree of intelligence in there.
Are they going to risk a big chunk of that? Well they might if the returns are good on where they are going to, but are they going to be in excess of $50M
But remember this is a recurring fee. That means $100M next year and $150M the year after. etc... I also assume this is a very profitable division of the company. I don't see them going with straight google serps....
Not to split hairs here but many seem to be taking the word default as if it means something other than "failure to find another solution" or something like that.
I think you hit the head on the nail; or something like that. :)
The Google press release of 2000 reads:
Yahoo! Selects Google as its Default Search Engine Provider