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My site has been First Now vanished from Google

My site has been the first of its kind, I drop off Google

     
6:35 am on Sep 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

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For the past year I have experienced periodically being completely dropped off Google. My site has been the FIRST of its kind and is in all the natural search results on the first spot. I'm just a small business, but since spet of 2004 I have been vanishing off of Google every 6 weeks or so--recently it has been more often and for longer periods. Does Google discriminate against Older sites? Are they doing it so that we will advertise with them? Any help, advice, comment from a desperate single mother of 4!
4:25 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>> Are other people who are experiencing the filter=0 issues also on a shared IP?

Doubt this is the case. (No, I'm not on a shared IP - never have been)

5:11 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi Reseller

Yes - I've read about 'thin affiliates' and would not call these sites 'thin' - plenty of unique content.

One site's been well ranked for about 5 years (it dropped from 4 to 14), the other's been up for about 2 years (it dropped from 2 to 9).

Neither site has ever been affected by a G 'update' before - I've had the same level of affiliate content for the past 3 years.

Don't have adsense on aff pages.

I was thinking the dupe affiliate content since it was updated... assuming there are more affiliates using this system than there were when I last updated the content - there would be more of the same content around.

Now - I'm also worried that adsens has affected me too.

5:17 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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What decent software is there to scrape and also copy entire web sites?

unbelievable!

5:23 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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A drop from position 4 to 14 doesn't sound bad. Most sites that took a big hit have dropped from PAGE 1 to page 5 or 10 or worse. It doesn't make sense because the dropped sites cannot even be found for their unique site names.

What causes this filter? It's not duplicate or near duplicate content, it's not affiliate links or Adsense, it's not backlinks, it's not spammy content. I can say this based on what I have on my four sites that dropped from top to nowhere.

It is very frustrating to know I have to start all over again and it will take months before I can even hope of the same traffic levels.

5:50 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Are other people who are experiencing the filter=0 issues also on a shared IP

yes, I am!

6:09 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Time to get a real job (McDonalds or Burger King :)
and not rely on SEO and a single SE.
6:17 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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rickagain

>>Don't have adsense on aff pages. <<

And I assume that you donīt have both affiliate links and AdSense on the front pages of the two affected sites?

6:44 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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If stolen content is marked supplemental, going after the crooks will have no effect at all. Even if the page is deleted, even if the page is removed using the URL removal tool, Google will still remember the stolen content, and even six months later when the URL removal tool expires, the Supplemental listing for the stolen page will return (having just been "hidden" for six months, not deleted from their index).

Aside from cleaning up any problems with your own sites, contacting crooks to remove content that is NOT marked supplemental, and contacting Google to get their act together, there appareently isn't anything a webmaster can do.

Junior Optimizer, you are saying you have a correct site: page count showing, not an inflated one? Are more than one or two of your own pages marked Supplemental then? So far I've only seen this occur with the mega-inflated page numbers, or a site with many supplementals.

(This thing has zero to do with affiliate links or Adsense, or any hand manipulation.)

7:03 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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What decent software is there to scrape and also copy entire web sites?

G apply hardly filters look good now to avoid things like this... keep away from ours site/work. Someone have a gun? :-/

7:20 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Steveb, based upon experience your comments seem to accurate with regard to stolen content in Google. The only drawback is if you don't deal with the thieves you encourage more. Monkey see, monkey do. Since I rarely deal with Google support are the stolen pages removed if the DMCA complaint is filed directly with Google?

It also seems to me the duplicate content must be affecting rankings but Google refuses to answer. A site is penalized for duplicate pages but a web site duplicating pages not being penalized doesn't make much sense.

To me Google admitting that the duplicity hurts rankings would cast a lot of dispersions on their money maker Adsense. In other words we're letting sites hurt you to increase our Adsense revenue. Or perhaps supplemental results are an acknowledgement of the problems they may or may not be dealing with. Peronally I think Google is saying the theft is not our problem even if it relates to Adsense.

7:44 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How many webmasters have n't ripped off printed copy or other web sites copy by changing the odd word here or there? Everyone has done it!

I honestly haven't.
7:48 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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steveb

>>(This thing has zero to do with affiliate links or Adsense, or any hand manipulation.) <<

How could you be so sure?

7:51 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Everyone has done it!

While I do use quotes, exerpts and a site's own meta description to describe it, these are clearly marked as quotes or excerpts.

No I haven't done it in the manner you suggest.

8:00 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Regarding the dup part of this whole mess...

It seemed to me that some dup filters (and related algo elements?) got scrambled really badly in December '04. They seemed to have it sorted in Feb '05, but then it all wigged out again in April, and got worse still in June.

The result of all this is that since June, a lot of nice authority sites have lost ranking - especially for subpages - for some but not all of their pages on those pages' most relevent search terms. IMO this has really hurt the SERP's. A lot of 'goto' pages are now being filtered.

Usually, when G goes too far, from my perspective, they tend to come back a bit. (I don't believe that they want to throw the babies out with the bathwater.) So I've been waiting to see when they might have this sorted again.

But instead of restoring more quality pages to the SERP's, a lot more quality pages are dropping out. It may be the worst collateral damage I've seen from them ever.

I don't doubt how difficult it is to sort out the issues created by dup content these days. But for now it seems that the problem is spiraling out of control. :/

8:02 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I'm not saying that you shouldn't hunt down content theiving scum and rip their throats out... I'm just saying doing so won't help you in getting rid of Supplemental results.

Personally I think finding, reporting, prosecuting, etc, content thieves should be at the top of anybody's list these days.

("How could you be so sure?" Because some or many or most effected sites don't have this stuff. All you have to do is look.)

8:35 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How many webmasters have n't ripped off printed copy or other web sites copy by changing the odd word here or there? Everyone has done it!

Just because you don't blatantly copy doesn't matter.

I wrote a whole web site from a book's contents and it is making a nice amount from affiliates.

It always amazes me how the dishonest assume everyone must be dishonest as well.

Congratulations on your lack of ethics.

9:17 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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outland88

>>A site is penalized for duplicate pages but a web site duplicating pages not being penalized doesn't make much sense.<<

Agreed. And therfore I believe that there must be other factors involved. I.e the duplicate issue (stolen contents) alone may not be the reason.

>>Peronally I think Google is saying the theft is not our problem .....<<

Thats what GoogleGuy indicated too in his posts which I mentioned in my previous posts on this thread..

9:39 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Ok our site finally vanished (like all our other ones) from Google a few days ago. This was our bread and butter site that we've been working on for years. We recently bought out another website and put links to our current website on all 1,000+ pages back to us. As usual this caused us to drop like a rock in the serps. Sooo... although its all speculative obviously google has a threshold of how many links can point to a site in a given period of time, and if you go over that limit they penalize you(ban?). Based on this, isnt this a flawed way to go about things? Couldn't we now simply link thousands of pages with different anchor text to our competitor and watch his ship(s) sink just as fast as well? I mean seriously whats to stop this from happening? This is the most ridiculous penalty ever, furthermore we just removed all of the links and I assume it wont make a lick of difference as we are now on Google's possibly permanent bad boy list....
9:45 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Reseller I did read your post. I would agree with GG then but not now. He needs to retract that since Adsense is at the root of so much copyright infringement. Google can't control the damage done to web sites in other search engines by Adsense. My point isn't to denigrate legitimate Adsense publishers but that program has almost become entirely synonymous with copyright infringement and duplicate content.

But Iím still wondering since I rarely deal with Google support are the stolen pages removed if the DMCA complaint is filed directly with Google?

9:45 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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giga

except they probably have identified you as linking within a network...

9:50 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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RE - bobster2
It has always concerned me - the main reason I dont post that often - that the spammers and thieves of content hide themselves like pedofiles do on the chat rooms of kids.

To those of you who think its OK to steal content - I would rate a drug up'ed junky who robs a bank more ethical than a webmaster who steals content. The junky has a uncontrollable need because of his problem - with a webmaster its just simple greed, theft, dishonesty etc etc - and yes life turns on people like this - they die misrable because eventually the dishonest behavior catches up with them.

9:55 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"except they probably have identified you as linking within a network... "

Gotta be impossible, people give Google too much credit as if they are omnipotent. We have seperate servers, seperate everything actually. Part of the buyout agreement was that we would keep all the files hosted on his server peremnetly so that google wouldnt make that conclusion (networked sites). Even tried to leave the whois info as intact as possible. The only changes we made was to add our link to all pages of the site back to our parent site, which as usual killed the parent site...

10:08 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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outland88

>>But Iím still wondering since I rarely deal with Google support are the stolen pages removed if the DMCA complaint is filed directly with Google? <<

Some say yes.. other say no ;-)

[webmasterworld.com...]

10:36 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Personally I think finding, reporting, prosecuting, etc, content thieves should be at the top of anybody's list these days.

True, but I got a bead on a hacker that can just rip out their site - and their entire livelyhood.

It's faster and comes with a bit of poetic justice.

10:49 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There would be a good business that could earn a lot if monitored copyright infringement on the net with automated software and then handled the DMCA complain, C&D, spam reports, and initial legal action.

Sort of a protection service from content thieves that could handle it all for the busy webmaster.

10:52 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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For me, it doesn't look like a duplicate content issue or WWW/non-WWW issue (301 re-direct already there) or even a linking issue - in fact, a website linked from that affected site actually came out of the sandbox a few days ago after over a year in search engine limbo.

I am flummoxed... The site knocked back is getting hit hard by Googlebot today...but the last cache for the index page says the 19th September... perhaps things will sort themselves out in the coming days or weeks...

Sure do miss those extra 1,000+ visitors a day!

11:22 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi Reseller

I don't have aff links and adsense appearing on the same pages.

The pages that ranked (each site had an indent) did not have any aff links or adsense on them.

True - our 'drop' was minimal (about 10 spots down + we lost our indents for our main keywords)... but it is the biggest downward movement ever for us.

For other phrases we've dissapeared - and these pages had adsense / NO affiliate for the subject.

As it only happened to the 2 sites we added adsense to and updated our affiliate content on - I can't help thinking one or both these things are part of why its happened.

Perhaps, adsense drew attention to these sites - but I'm leaning to the dupe content theory... adding that the effect of dupe content on one section of our sites has caused the other sections to lose ranking.

11:34 pm on Sept 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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So no one has address my statement/question, can we take our large directory sites and link everypage (with different anchor text) to a compedator's site and in effect kill him/her in the serps? If so isnt this alittle flawed on google's part? I think it is possible and plan to try it this evening as a test. If google allows/encourages it why not...
12:20 am on Sept 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

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True, but I got a bead on a hacker that can just rip out their site - and their entire livelyhood.

This would be illegal and actionable, I would entirely expect a content theif to take you to court and win. How ironic.

12:44 am on Sept 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

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In other words if they can't do a decent job of making that choice why not just leave it all in there and have complete (and in most cases better) SERPs.

The reason why this would never happen is very simple. People with high ranking sites would just make duplicates of their own pages and have all their duplicate listings go on forever blocking out anyone else from the search results.

If you demote people who do that, then you are back to square one. You can't just have them present duplicate data as-is because it would be significantly abused.

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