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Yes - I've read about 'thin affiliates' and would not call these sites 'thin' - plenty of unique content.
One site's been well ranked for about 5 years (it dropped from 4 to 14), the other's been up for about 2 years (it dropped from 2 to 9).
Neither site has ever been affected by a G 'update' before - I've had the same level of affiliate content for the past 3 years.
Don't have adsense on aff pages.
I was thinking the dupe affiliate content since it was updated... assuming there are more affiliates using this system than there were when I last updated the content - there would be more of the same content around.
Now - I'm also worried that adsens has affected me too.
What causes this filter? It's not duplicate or near duplicate content, it's not affiliate links or Adsense, it's not backlinks, it's not spammy content. I can say this based on what I have on my four sites that dropped from top to nowhere.
It is very frustrating to know I have to start all over again and it will take months before I can even hope of the same traffic levels.
Aside from cleaning up any problems with your own sites, contacting crooks to remove content that is NOT marked supplemental, and contacting Google to get their act together, there appareently isn't anything a webmaster can do.
Junior Optimizer, you are saying you have a correct site: page count showing, not an inflated one? Are more than one or two of your own pages marked Supplemental then? So far I've only seen this occur with the mega-inflated page numbers, or a site with many supplementals.
(This thing has zero to do with affiliate links or Adsense, or any hand manipulation.)
It also seems to me the duplicate content must be affecting rankings but Google refuses to answer. A site is penalized for duplicate pages but a web site duplicating pages not being penalized doesn't make much sense.
To me Google admitting that the duplicity hurts rankings would cast a lot of dispersions on their money maker Adsense. In other words we're letting sites hurt you to increase our Adsense revenue. Or perhaps supplemental results are an acknowledgement of the problems they may or may not be dealing with. Peronally I think Google is saying the theft is not our problem even if it relates to Adsense.
It seemed to me that some dup filters (and related algo elements?) got scrambled really badly in December '04. They seemed to have it sorted in Feb '05, but then it all wigged out again in April, and got worse still in June.
The result of all this is that since June, a lot of nice authority sites have lost ranking - especially for subpages - for some but not all of their pages on those pages' most relevent search terms. IMO this has really hurt the SERP's. A lot of 'goto' pages are now being filtered.
Usually, when G goes too far, from my perspective, they tend to come back a bit. (I don't believe that they want to throw the babies out with the bathwater.) So I've been waiting to see when they might have this sorted again.
But instead of restoring more quality pages to the SERP's, a lot more quality pages are dropping out. It may be the worst collateral damage I've seen from them ever.
I don't doubt how difficult it is to sort out the issues created by dup content these days. But for now it seems that the problem is spiraling out of control. :/
Personally I think finding, reporting, prosecuting, etc, content thieves should be at the top of anybody's list these days.
("How could you be so sure?" Because some or many or most effected sites don't have this stuff. All you have to do is look.)
How many webmasters have n't ripped off printed copy or other web sites copy by changing the odd word here or there? Everyone has done it!
Just because you don't blatantly copy doesn't matter.
I wrote a whole web site from a book's contents and it is making a nice amount from affiliates.
It always amazes me how the dishonest assume everyone must be dishonest as well.
Congratulations on your lack of ethics.
>>A site is penalized for duplicate pages but a web site duplicating pages not being penalized doesn't make much sense.<<
Agreed. And therfore I believe that there must be other factors involved. I.e the duplicate issue (stolen contents) alone may not be the reason.
>>Peronally I think Google is saying the theft is not our problem .....<<
Thats what GoogleGuy indicated too in his posts which I mentioned in my previous posts on this thread..
But Iím still wondering since I rarely deal with Google support are the stolen pages removed if the DMCA complaint is filed directly with Google?
To those of you who think its OK to steal content - I would rate a drug up'ed junky who robs a bank more ethical than a webmaster who steals content. The junky has a uncontrollable need because of his problem - with a webmaster its just simple greed, theft, dishonesty etc etc - and yes life turns on people like this - they die misrable because eventually the dishonest behavior catches up with them.
Gotta be impossible, people give Google too much credit as if they are omnipotent. We have seperate servers, seperate everything actually. Part of the buyout agreement was that we would keep all the files hosted on his server peremnetly so that google wouldnt make that conclusion (networked sites). Even tried to leave the whois info as intact as possible. The only changes we made was to add our link to all pages of the site back to our parent site, which as usual killed the parent site...
>>But Iím still wondering since I rarely deal with Google support are the stolen pages removed if the DMCA complaint is filed directly with Google? <<
Some say yes.. other say no ;-)
Sort of a protection service from content thieves that could handle it all for the busy webmaster.
I am flummoxed... The site knocked back is getting hit hard by Googlebot today...but the last cache for the index page says the 19th September... perhaps things will sort themselves out in the coming days or weeks...
Sure do miss those extra 1,000+ visitors a day!
I don't have aff links and adsense appearing on the same pages.
The pages that ranked (each site had an indent) did not have any aff links or adsense on them.
True - our 'drop' was minimal (about 10 spots down + we lost our indents for our main keywords)... but it is the biggest downward movement ever for us.
For other phrases we've dissapeared - and these pages had adsense / NO affiliate for the subject.
As it only happened to the 2 sites we added adsense to and updated our affiliate content on - I can't help thinking one or both these things are part of why its happened.
Perhaps, adsense drew attention to these sites - but I'm leaning to the dupe content theory... adding that the effect of dupe content on one section of our sites has caused the other sections to lose ranking.
In other words if they can't do a decent job of making that choice why not just leave it all in there and have complete (and in most cases better) SERPs.
The reason why this would never happen is very simple. People with high ranking sites would just make duplicates of their own pages and have all their duplicate listings go on forever blocking out anyone else from the search results.
If you demote people who do that, then you are back to square one. You can't just have them present duplicate data as-is because it would be significantly abused.