Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.224.121.67

Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi

Message Too Old, No Replies

Lost in Google

     
6:39 pm on Feb 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 17, 2003
posts:43
votes: 0


My site has been in 1st page serps for many years. Just a few weeks ago, my listing went from a title display and decription to just this:

www.mydomain.com/
Similar pages

In addition, my Yahoo listing disappeared as well. I then did a Yahoo search for pages with my domain included and found most of my interior pages indexed but not my home page.

What happened? Is it possible my site was not ready to be crawled when Googlebot and Slurp robots visied my site - simultaneously?

This is a very "white hat" site - no tricks at all, just good content...

I went and manually requested my site be spidered on both Google and Yahoo, and sent an email to Yahoo requesting any explanation as well.

Is there anything else I can do? Any ideas of why this happened?

6:28 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 27, 2005
posts:93
votes: 0


Zeus,

Did you see the links alexa are using?

I just cannot get them to reply to my e-mails detailing my concerns.

Alexa does not have the right to include your website with SERVERSIDE BASED DIRECTIVES ALTERING THE DYNAMICS OF THE LINK FROM A PURE HTML TO A DEADLY 302 DIRECTIVE PROTOCOL that tells robots your site belongs to alexa.

No reply from them, not even a sausage.

Google must remove its supply of results from them otherwise it will have catstrophic effects. It is happening now.

8:35 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Feb 1, 2005
posts:61
votes: 0


Japanese:

(I did read your posts in the other threads too.)
If I do a google search allinurl:alexa redirect I get a total of 17 results, mostly url only. Same answer if I query 3 other DCs. Where are all of these alexa redirect urls in the google index?

Back in December, 2004 Yahoo presented an overview of how 301/302 redirects would be handled - here's the pdf document

[seroundtable.com ]

Note the difference between intra-domain and inter-domain 302 handling. I suspect google is following the same general model.

If you have evidence that the google index is filled with these alexa redirects, please indicate how to find them via a search query. Thank you :)

9:00 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 7, 2005
posts:7
votes: 0


I just wanted to add I am yet another casuality of this hijacking.

I've been following these posts for a while and have been scratching my head how I could have suddenly dropped out of the search engines.

I just don't know where to go.

Sadly there is not much information out there on the Internet on what to do when this happens to your site. I know my site personally is a redirect 302 hijacking.

However, I also know my site is not getting spidered correctly anymore. I do post and update my site daily also. Luckily, I don't just have one site....

11:20 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 28, 2002
posts:3444
votes: 1


Im in contact with adsense, I have just send a email and asked them if they where interested in a list of scraper sites that are sponsored by adsense and use hijacking or redirecting scripts.

If they say yes I will post it here and you can sticky me all the links, that does not follow adsense rules and hurt your ranking (redirecting), but wait until I have got a reply and I will also first ask brett if its ok.

I also ended some talks with a hosting company that simply refuses to contact a site of them to stop the redircting, it said it has to be that way.

1:56 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:May 10, 2003
posts:929
votes: 13


Was just on my way to submit my competitors' 302 redirects from Alexa (er, I mean... just kidding...) and I noticed Google's submit page is not working. Maybe they ARE reading these forums after all and decided to keep any more pages from being submitted. Any time I try to re-submit my pages which have disappeared, to Google through their submit URL pages, I get a quick page redirect, followed by page not found error. Or has someone tried to steal Google's site now? <lol>

Hey Japanese, why not drive the point home once and for all by using your above described technique to hijack the G site. Then they would finally understand what everyone has been trying to tell them and have no other choice than to fix the problem!

2:06 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 27, 2005
posts:93
votes: 0


BigUns,

Many thanks for your input.

Yahoo’s much heralded and eagerly expected presentation of its 301 and 302 overview failed abysmally to create a sensation that was expected by passionate webmaster who were agog with anticipation of a new directive to govern and standardize such redirects. In fact I have just seen it for the first time myself, with your compliments, and it gave me an anti climax feeling which I was trying to avoid since it was published.

I am none the wiser for seeing it and in no doubt about its insignificance to the internet community as a whole. It looks more like an alphebet training supplement than a hard core anti blackhat hijacking directive.

It must have given google and msn a similar feeling and as yet no pomp and pageantry is planned for the unveiling of google’s answer to these redirects. This problem with redirects is the biggest thing on the internet and it has been dexterously kept under wraps by 2 of the worlds most dominant internet companies. This kind of thing normally brings a company to its knees, but google has so many fans that they just want it to find a solution. When it does, we can then equate the sensation compared to Yahoo’s. Who knows, google’s answer regarding the redirects may be heralded as the new dawning and the definitive revelation of scriptures that will govern redirects and that all who use the internet will one way or another abide by it.

A typical alexa link
[redirect.alexa.com...]
The browser or robot is told there, at the serverside, where to go with a 302 directive. And I could not find anywhere in the header or at the alexa site to suggest that googlebot should KEEP the target page. No reassurance of any sort except a frighteningly efficient redirect system.

Can you please assure us that the above script is totally harmless.

What assurance and where can we find evidence that such 302 redirects are approved by google.

2:40 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 2, 2003
posts:90
votes: 0


I think my site may have been hit by this trick since I am getting no traffic from google since the weekend.
I am getting traffic from the other engines.

Looking at the results I see various redirects but one guy frames by site and you cant see how hes doing the redirect since he loads another php file to load it up.

Looking at the headers I do see a 302 redirect.. but can someone double check for me?

2:46 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 4, 2002
posts:1830
votes: 3


If I do a google search allinurl:alexa redirect I get a total of 17 results, mostly url only. Same answer if I query 3 other DCs. Where are all of these alexa redirect urls in the google index?

I've never seen these in referral urls but if you have your site listed in Alexa just copy their link to your site and then run it through a server header checker and you'll find a 302 redirect. I did this to all 25 of my clients this morning and found a redirect on every one of them and then bombarded Alexa with requests for them to be removed.


Sadly there is not much information out there on the Internet on what to do when this happens to your site. I know my site personally is a redirect 302 hijacking.

I have written an extensive article on this. Just search for "hijacking web page pr" and my article should come up in first restults. I have 25 clients and deal with this issue constantly. I checked one client's allinurl results this morn and found 4, 302 redirects and wrote them letters. Got one response so far and they are removing the link--so they say.

I don't do this very often however -- puts me in a
VERY bad mood!

2:58 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 27, 2005
posts:93
votes: 0


Lorel,

Many thanks for your contribution.

I have a high regard for your thoughts regarding this matter.

I raised the alexa issue because it has been 10 days since I first contacted them to explain why they have adjusted the pure HTML links provided by google for their results into 302 redirects.

They have yet to reply after 3 more requests demanding an explanation as to the efects of the scripts regarding googlebot and how googlebot will behave when presented wIth the 302 redirects. Will googlebot consider the target page be kept intact with no influence of the redirect?

All I wanted was assurance that these redirects are approved by google.

I wanted to then confirm this with google.

4:01 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Nov 1, 2003
posts:101
votes: 0


I emailed Google a few days ago about my site disappearing from the index. I explained to them that when I searched for my site by domain name, that only the URL displayed and that my description and title were missing.

I also pointed out to Google that when I searched using allinurl: other sites were displayed using my sites URL, title, description, and keywords, in their URL. I gave Google a list of these offending URL's and said that i suspected my site was being hijacked.

Google’s reply is below (names and URL omitted):

Hi Blah Blah,

Thank you for your note. We apologize for our delay in responding to your email.

We searched for your site and found that it is currently included in our search results. To see the results of our search, please visit the following link:

http:// Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

The Google index contains two types of pages: fully indexed and partially indexed pages. Your page is currently partially indexed. Because our robots were unable to completely review its content during our last crawl, your site appears without a cached copy or detailed title. Instead, it's listed by its URL.

We understand the frustration this situation may cause you. We're always working to increase the number of fully indexed pages in our index. You may be able to improve this page's visibility in our search results by ensuring that a number of high-quality sites link to it. While we can't guarantee that pages in our search results will always be fully indexed, "crawler-friendly" pages have a greater chance of being fully indexed.

Guidelines for creating a "crawler-friendly" site are available at http:// Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Regards,
The Google Team

4:24 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 16, 2003
posts:21
votes: 0


Sorry to be so dense. I do not have as much experience as all of you.

Is this what you were calling the Serverside directive? [redirect.alexa.com...]

So, if I go to one of the many directories listing my site, and I right click on title, hit properties and I see redirect, then that means I have been hijacked?

Thanks for all of the excellent information.

P.S. I went to alexa and typed in my website without www or .com, many of my pages came up with this,

[redirect.alexa.com...] website.com%2F

is this a "A DEADLY 302 DIRECTIVE PROTOCOL "?

i also did a friends and he has the same thing except he has not lost keywords

so i'm still confused.

4:44 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 7, 2005
posts:7
votes: 0


Lorel has an extensive review of hijacking. Just do a google search and you will find it 1st at "hijacking web page pr".

It absolutely spells out a hijacked site.

5:07 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 27, 2005
posts:93
votes: 0


I think all of us have the highest regard for google. We are letting off steam in this contained forum because of our frustration that google has not yet found an answer.

If we make enough noise, then we may see a result. Please contribute your thoughts, and yes, as I stipulated, many sites are being hijacked as we speak.

We know the simplicity of hijacking a site, I have never attempted it nor would I advise anybody to take advantage of googlebots ability to generate a result from a dynamically presented link that is only a link for humans browsers but becomes a deadly link when googlebot follows it.

ANYBODY THAT UNDERSTANDS THE BELOW CONTENTS PLEASE CONTRIBUTE., I may be wrong and hope to be contradicted for the sake of people losing their hard work and ranking in google.

Think of it this way; I will put it in laymans terms as possible.

1, A single page exists on the internet. www.cdaaa.com

2, You place a serverside cript as a link www.cdaaa.com/go-php?=www.cdaaa.com%2f for googlebot to follow on that page. Ever since bots were able to read these scripts they have been exploited. It is the only page that exists so you cannot put it anywhere else. It simply indicates to go to the go-php redirector, the rest is crap info to make it look good or can contain affiliate click counter info. It can be made to be a mile long, you can even put a joke in there or say hello to your victim.

3, googlebot follows the link to get instructions from the serverside php redirector and picks up a 302 telling it that the page has temporarily moved and exists at this location “www.cdaaa.com” (this is the killer and culprit, manipulating googlebot) I hope somebody who understands the serverside workings join us to explain exactly how googlebot behaves during this split second procedure. It is vitally important and I believe here rests a starting point.

4, Googlebot proceeds to confirm the domain exists and goes to GET, after a global tour and ends up at the same server is presented with a GET 200 page exists status code. Is presented with the page. In this case the page that contained the kick off link, googlebot takes a snapshot of the page it finds to index in google results. (Hang on a minute, it took a snapshot? Of what?)

5, Now there are 2 pages on the internet.
www.cdaaa.com
www.cdaaa.com/go-php?=www.bbb.com%2f
Clicking on the second link goes first to the website that that contains the serverside 302 directive then you are taken to where the page location exists (remember! The killer). I am confused, will somebody please help me figure this one out. Clicking on the first one goes directly to the page the script link exists.

googlebot penalizes one or the other for duplicate content.

But how can a page that does not exist be penalised?

The only vulnerable page is the real macoy.

6, You e-mail google asking how comes 2 identical pages exists of my index page.

7, google replies;
Our robots crawl the internet on a regular basis. We find new links that point to websites and update on a monthly basis. New websites will be indexed in our next update. Rest assured that no outside influence can jeopardize your ranking in google.

8, Hang on a minute, somebody did just that.

9, You go to use googles URL-CONSOLE to remove the offending link because it ranks above the original. You are told the page exists and cannot be deleted.

10, You make a mistake at the console. Your site is deleted from the index for 90 days.

11, The offending link now remains as the only page on the index. It is alive and kicking because its lifline only resides at the PAGE LOCATION in the go-php redirector (the killer instruction).

7:33 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 13, 2002
posts:246
votes: 0


Japanese, that's a darn good explanation of what's happening, now we need some senior members like Brett or GoogleGuy to jump in here and contribute their thoughts to the discussion.

I am not a programmer so my next question may seem silly to some, but then great inventions have often come from silly mistakes...

Can a site owner ban an IP address from accessing his/her web site?

For example, I know that Joe HiJacker uses IP address ab.cd.ef.gh, can't I simply tell my server "don't return html" for that IP address?

Once the hijacker cannot display my results as if they were his then I would assume that my site could safely avoid the "duplicate" filter phenomenon.

If enough people start "protecting" their web sites then it might begin to get costly for the hijackers to change IP addresses.

just a thought...

Come on senior members and knowledgable programmers, what is practical here? It may seem Utopian to expect Google or other search engines to find a solution but if we arm the masses we may be able to protect ourselves.

7:42 am on Mar 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

New User

joined:Feb 17, 2005
posts:18
votes: 0


I keep seeing all these woeful stories of people pages gone in the toilet, but I STILL don't understand one thing:

Why does Google credit the originator of the referral?

Based on content alone, it only makes sense that Website #1 is authoritative about blue widgets. Website #3 would get some credit for mentioning blue widgets and the authority. What in Google's logic gives Website #2 any credit at all?

Website #1 (original webmaster): www.bluewidgets.com

Welcome to Bluewidgets.com!

Here's our page about blue widgets to read about.
Blue widgets are blue.

_____________________________________________________________

Website #2 (hijacker): www.badguy.com?url=www.bluewidgets.com

blank page
meta-refrsh url=www.bluewidgets.com
_____________________________________________________________

(or substitute 302, frame-jacking, etc)

Website #3 (other innocent webmaster): www.redsprokets.com

Resources/Links

If you enjoyed our site about red sprokets,
you may be interested in blue widgets!

[redsprokets.com?out.cgi&site=www.bluesprockets.com...]

_____________________________________________________________

This 206 message thread spans 14 pages: 206
 

Join The Conversation

Moderators and Top Contributors

Hot Threads This Week

Featured Threads

Free SEO Tools

Hire Expert Members