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Lost in Google

     
6:39 pm on Feb 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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My site has been in 1st page serps for many years. Just a few weeks ago, my listing went from a title display and decription to just this:

www.mydomain.com/
Similar pages

In addition, my Yahoo listing disappeared as well. I then did a Yahoo search for pages with my domain included and found most of my interior pages indexed but not my home page.

What happened? Is it possible my site was not ready to be crawled when Googlebot and Slurp robots visied my site - simultaneously?

This is a very "white hat" site - no tricks at all, just good content...

I went and manually requested my site be spidered on both Google and Yahoo, and sent an email to Yahoo requesting any explanation as well.

Is there anything else I can do? Any ideas of why this happened?

3:59 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Has Yahoo found a solution? And if so, wouldn't they have an interest in sharing it with everybody else? My sites still show up in Yahoo.
4:40 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Just curious – has anyone ever reported a hijacking problem to Google and got a reply back from them?
5:16 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"reported a hijacking problem to Google and got a reply back from them"
I think in 1 of the previous redirect-hijack threads, people have reported receiving a standard (your're in our supplemental index) type reply.
5:26 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Problem is everytime a hijacking site goes into supplemental results, ten new ones will appear, now apparently using cheap info domains. Cloaking different pages for search engines and for visitors.

Adsense should qualify sites. No revenue for them means no motivation to create scrapper sites. But these sites are also Adword customers paying 3c cheapo rates to get your visitors to their scrapper directory. They will entice you with misleading ads just to get you to visit their directory with high paying, completely unrelated page with no way out other than clicking on the links or closing the browser. If you close the browser, you get something like 2 - 3 popups.

For those who think this kind of traffic can convert well, you're kidding yourself.

7:16 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I'm saying that Google knows where it landed it was told where to go by the redirect.

I was thinking the same thing.

What is the reason Google treats 301's differently from 302/meta-refresh? Shouldn't meta-refresh/302's cause the page containing the redirect to be devalued, in the same way they are with 301's?

7:24 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Zeus,
I appreciate your effort, I will write to GoogleGuy myself and try to explain the problem.

Japanese,
Your input here is fundamental, please lay out any thoughts you have on possible solutions.

There appear to be various types of redirects going on, many of which cause loss of business to web site owners.

We as a group of Webmasters need to lay out the terms and define clearly and concisely the techniques being used by unethical webmasters so that Google and other search engines can focus their efforts on finding a solution to the "bug".

Last night I went to bed early because I had a headache from what I discovered, so I only had a chance to quickly write down 24 web sites that all belong to the same "network", but I'm sure the number is well into the hundreds. I'm not talking about just one site pagejacking another, I'm talking about a network of sites hijacking entire industries.

In this particular case there is a deliberate effort to cash in on quick money by stealing the hard work of others like ourselves who have spent countless hours optimizing sites for our clients.

This individual (or individuals) has a template which acts as if it were a search engine - providing listings for nearly everything imaginable.

Besides the redirect there is also a deliberate effort to "appear" to be legitimate by pretending to link directly to each site listed (when you pass over the listing with your mouse you see the statis bar link).

So to sum things up here, this has become a big business and the 24 domains that I've jotted down are just the tip of the iceberg for this one particular "network", I can't help but think of how many other "networks" there are or will be unless the issue is addressed by the search engines.

Feel free to sticky me for info on this or if anyone has similar cases in study.

11:24 am on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Bobby and Japanese for your kind words.

I will try to list up what I have done in the fight of this hijacker/redirecting problem, but as you know with no success.

I have send emails to googleguy, and a few others, also send emails to adsense and asked them if they are realy interested in sponsoring scraper sites that hijacks other sites.

Used toolbar to get googlebot back

Updated the site

Loaded the whole site to server again to get a fresh date.

Wrote to hijackers and hosting, mostly no reply, hosting dont know what Im talking about.

Added the last part of the hijacker URLs in a do not crawl robots txt and used the removal tool.

I guess now most of you are going out to buy a good rope, paper and pen :), be cause there are no more sane solutions then wait.

One thing I have notised, that with all those hijacker/redirecting the omitted results has also gone nuts, it is as if google have no real content left in there searches and different content is also listed as omitted, but then the hijacker comes in, maybe so many sites are hurt now, that automatic we get omitted results so early even if it is different contents, if thats the case google are in HUGE trouble, finiancial and future.

about the 302 meta that googlebot knows where its going, my theory is that googbot in a way ignores the meta but still goes to the other site, but does not include that it is going to another site.

3:06 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Japanese:
Do you think that one can get out of this situations if he would buy for exampe a PR7 link to my homepage, in this way his home would have more relevance and it could be considered the good one..
3:26 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Zeus,

Google's total dominance and total control of the internet with its inability to overcome directive 302 scripts and its capacity problems spells the end of the internet as being a place to host websites.

I traced down today a website that caused a 302 directive, supporting the redirect is a particularly nasty META REFRESH of "0" seconds to the hijacked website.

This is concrete evidence that Zeus’s and my theory is bang on target.... googlebot is being manipulated and I know exactly how it is done.

The only way forward is to attract google’s attention to these posts. Maybe someone higher up than their suave representative here, maybe a guy that understands what we are talking about here.

A CGI PEARL SERVERSIDE INCLUDE DIRECTIVE SCRIPT that is activated by a HTML link on a webpage is not a page that exists. This type of link is only a syntax on the page and it is a “time-bomb” waiting to explode in the face of the unsuspecting website that the link is pointing to.

THE DEADLY WEAPON
This is where googlebot becomes a deadly weapon against unsuspecting sites. A blackhat webmaster places a link to his competitor on a page he knows is visited by as many robots as possible, he makes a few variants to expedite the acknowledgement of the bot regarding the bait link, googlebot follows the link to the page he planted the CGI PEARL path. Googlebot follows the serverside directive of the baited link, it is told the unsuspecting website is at a temporary residence and to go and GET it. Googlebot interrogates the apache server at the “temporary address”, it is presented with a 200 GET, this class of status code indicates that the client's request was successfully received, understood, and accepted the page is new, BRAND NEW according to googlebot regarding the link it followed. But the directive has no content like title tag and description. Googlebot now has created a virtual page to index using the content of the unsuspecting legitimate site, but under the URL of the blackhat webmaster.

It is then that the monster is created, googlebot is acting as a page generator....and google’s so called patented duplicate page detector goes into action when the legitimate site is found containing the same content. Though googlebot does not write html pages, it is using existing pages to attach to hijacking URL scripts. google cannot demote virtual pages, they do not actually exist so nothing to demote, so the page that contains the actual substance is demoted in rankings.

A script such as; [badguy.com...] is not a page or existing website. This is where the big misunderstanding is occuring. A robot like googlebot creates it as a page with the contents of the legitemate site, then attaches the culprit URL that is now a fully functional index result in google. But googlebot can only create the monster only after being instructed by the scripts serverside information.

If this explanation is not clear enough for google and msn, then I think everybody should lose hope and adopt my method of retaliation against host providers that harbor these kind of scripts. I have seen yesterday, 4 CACHED IDENTICAL PAGES 3 of them were indexed as belonging to serverside generated URL's that never existed until googlebot followed and generated the pages listed in google. The other 1 was the legitimate site penalized for duplicate content and in total oblivion in the results of google.

I challenge google and msn or anybody to refute or deny the existence of the above. I have detailed header results for all 4 from 6 different header interrogation tools that show exactly the same results.

3:41 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Jeffwade,

Don't purchase any links. I believe one thing and one thing only.

FAIR PLAY TO ALL

Unnatural links will do you damage. A link within a paragraph from another site in anchor keywords is a mega link. Especially if an acronym tag is deloyed with the keyword title.

Google is the embodiment of the American Dream. A company that emerged out of a smoke filled garden garage inhabited by two sleepless looking t-shirt and jeans wearing computer freaks to produce the biggest database the world has ever known for all of us to enjoy.

Let us work together to help them overcome this gargantuan task with an elagant, more refined solution than yahoo did. Many websites using these scripts are not aware they are doing damage.

Keep msn at bay and yahoo in the distant horizon.

4:38 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Just curious – has anyone ever reported a hijacking problem to Google and got a reply back from them?

Yes, I have several clients who had various forms of redirects affecting their sites. I wrote Google about this in mid Nov 04, sending them the links involved in the redirects, and got the following reply:


Thank you for your note. Google aggregates and organizes information
published on the web; we don't control the content of these pages. In this
instance, we suggest that you directly address the webmaster of the page
in question. For more information about our Terms of Service, please visit
[google.com...]

If you encounter sites that are trying to deceive our web crawlers, please
submit a report at [google.com...] We use
these reports to collect data that our engineers use to devise scalable
solutions to fight spam in our search results. While we do not always take
action on individual sites as a result of these reports, please be assured
that we are using the information to make large-scale improvements to our
system.

We appreciate your assistance in maintaining the quality of our search
results.

Regards,
The Google Team

I have written the webmasters/ site owners and hosting companies (which is often the owner of the site) often to no avail but sometimes it works. None of my clients are involved in affiliates so that's not a problem but I had mistakenly submitted most of them to Alexa which I will be correcting shortly..

My biggest problem lately is the hosting company doesn't respond either and their host is themselves so I run into a dead end.

DMCA is the next step.

5:46 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I THINK I AM GOING TO GIVE UP

Here is an example of very, very bad way that wbsites are causing googlebot problems. Simply follow the below instructions and you will be enlightened as to how big this problem is and it is getting worse by the minute, as you are reading this post many sites are being demoted in google.

1, Go to [alexa.com...]
2, search for COTTON BUDS
3, in the organic results right click on the title link,
4, copy the SERVERSIDE DIRECTIVE URL. In other words what an normal user may call a link.
5, Interrogate the header of the link
6, You will see that it is not a normal link and in fact it is a 302 temporary redirect protocol to robots.
7, The script is harmless when clicked by a human user, ie; browser.
8, The directive script becomes a NIGHTMARE to the website owner if the link is presented to a robot such as googlebot.
9, If you want your competitor to go down in history, now you know how easy it is done.
10, If a link exists anywhere on the net that is accessible to googlebot of the result page produced in alexa, googlebot can follow all of the redirect scripts within it and """"""""BANG""""""" goes your website into total oblivion in google searches.

YOUR WEBSITE WILL NEVER RECOVER without devine intervention.

5:58 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Correction to the title of my above post.

I THINK I AM GOING TO "SPEW UP"

And don't forget
""""""""" BANG """"""""" goes your website if a competitor lays a linking path for googlebot to find your site in the results page of alexa. Suposedly an ethical website providing a community based website. In fact it is a killing machine that is going out of control with the help of google.

I believe google provides the results clean and alexa plants the deadly timebomb directives into your title links.
""""""""" BANG """""""" that is all it takes.

6:04 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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since many of these problems are causing websites to disappear for thier company/brand name, why not follow the louis vuitton example, and get an offshore friend to buy a few adwords for your brand then file a copywrite lawsuit against google, one has already been won, and more are in the pipeline. Maybe when these issues are harmful to users, webmasters *and* stockholder's bottom line something will be done.
6:14 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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One thing is sure we have to do something and it does not seem we can do anything webmaster related with out breaking rules, which Im not willing to do.

What can we do? we need a responce from google, that would let us know that in the next update everything is clean again, not we are working on it.

I have just contact alexa, told them to remove my links or how to.

I also got a reply from adsense, that they where glad for my email about a site using 302 meta and adsense, they will forward, but I dont think we see any solution.

I remeber the good times where Google said "YOU CAN NOT BE HURT FROM OUTSIDE SIDES"

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