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Update Allegra - Google Update 2-2-2005

   
1:34 pm on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

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My site which came back on december 26 update, seems to have disappeared again on this data center [216.239.53.99...] . Its notwhere to be found even in allinanchor, allintitle etc? I see majot change on that data center, is this a new update?
12:24 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The work that you did certainly had every chance of improving your rankings. As you specifically mention Google it would appear that you have gained from the latest tweaking that G appear to be doing. If you cast your eyes over to the Google Forum, you'll see some pretty hefty threads [webmasterworld.com] going on right now about this update.

Congrats on your new rankings.

5:14 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Frankly, words in this thread would be better used discussing the current algo / changes.

Amen to that.

In previous updates there used to be a separate "analysis" thread. So far I've seen about 95% whinging (myself included) and about 5% analysis (and I think a big chunk of that was me posting the same thing several times).

Look - Google giveth, and Google taketh away. Get used to it. I'm more interested in WHY it has changed and how to fix it.

5:23 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Every site in my search sector with large numbers of one way outbound links, has been wiped out by Allegra [e.g. affiliate sites, directories, ecommerce sites with directories, etc.]. I'm convinced that one element of Allegra has been aimed at finally tackling the issue of scraper sites, made for adsense directories, etc. This problem has been spreading like a plague recently. Is there anyone here that is linked to hundreds of sites that are not linking back, and have not been affected by Allegra?
5:24 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member beedeedubbleu is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Larry & Sergey,
Hope this reaches you. I am a well-wisher of Google & was a fan....uptil now. my website is online since 1999. for last 5 years, we have been on first page first site for our primary keywords. But, now with this recent algo change of urs, we are nowhere.

IrvingGuy,
We don't give a rat's ass about your results - we're rich man! You think we care about your results? You need a reality check.
Sgnd,
Larry and Sergei

But seriously, all of you who are promoting the idea that the press should get a hold of this also need a reality check. Try explaining what happened here to Joe Public - no chance!

If the press aren't interested in featuring something as radical and significant as the sandbox we'd better just forget about it. This happened almost 12 months ago and there has not been a single mention of it in the press, anywhere, worldwide. What does that tell you?

5:32 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)



"I'm more interested in WHY it has changed and how to fix it."

I belive the consensus is that this is a google BUG, that's why. See comments of people not ranking in the top 50 for their website.com.

5:37 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Adam,
Try dmoz, yahoo and all major directories.
5:44 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



a1call,

dmoz and yahoo pages aren't ranking in the first 100 pages of my Google sector. Perhaps in your's?

5:47 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Is there anyone here that is linked to hundreds of sites that are not linking back, and have not been affected by Allegra?

Yes. I have several hundred outbound links spread across my site which are not reciprocated. All links appear on map and photo pages which concern the area I am linking to.

I have had no penalties of any kind ... not yet anyway. I also see no reason why this should incur any penalties. They are all very relevant links to other sites in my slice of the world which my customers visit as they sail around the islands. Its all on the up and up. No tricks, and they are all direct links to the various sites.

<Added> I should mention that there are probably no more than 10 links out per page ... if that.

There is no "scraping" of text either. The links are all contained in (original copy) written paragraphs describing the various areas.

[edited by: Liane at 5:54 pm (utc) on Feb. 7, 2005]

5:53 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"I'm more interested in WHY it has changed and how to fix it."

I belive the consensus is that this is a google BUG, that's why. See comments of people not ranking in the top 50 for their website.com.

Agreed.

If anyone still doesn't believe Google is broken, have a look at this search:
<snip>

There are some decent sites at the top (none of which are anything to do with me - I'm not advertising here!).

But take a look what happens from the bottom of page 1 onwards.

[edited by: ciml at 8:14 pm (utc) on Feb. 7, 2005]
[edit reason] No keyphrases please. [/edit]

6:08 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member essex_boy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



well spotted! made me smile. Dont worry about alogo work around it, using free directorys links etc from other sites to drive traffic.

That way when the alogo favours you its great and when its not leaning inyour direction you have no real need to worry.

6:11 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Must be on a different datacenter valeyard, as page two is almost more relevant than page 1.
6:26 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lammert is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The problem valeyard mentions occurs on 64.233.183.104. Although I have been very positive about Google in the last days, I must admit, if these are the future's SERPs I will find another search engine.
6:31 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm looking at results even worse than the ones mentioned by valeyard right now. From where I'm at the comment spamming begins at # 5 and wow! Those are pretty horrible examples of what comment spamming can do.

Downright depressing.

And this, was the first proof I've seen of how this update has gone wrong. I've mainly been watching my own keywords, and I can assure you there is nothing this bad going on for those.

I now tried some moneywords in Swedish, and couldn't see anyting like it anywhere, which I find strange.

6:33 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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What is more interesting is that those blog spammers are not showing in the results.

Absolutely! Even though it's horrible that they should show up at all, maybe the fact that their sites aren't ranking will put them off a bit.

6:40 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)



Is there anyone here that is linked to hundreds of sites that are not linking back, and have not been affected by Allegra?

I've been affected, but only positively. (Google referrals are up by nearly a third.)

My several thousand outbound links are presented in an editorial context with annotations that I've written myself.

IMHO, Google would never be foolish enough to use large numbers of outbound links as de facto evidence of a "scraper site" or boilerplate directory. Other factors would also come into play.

6:42 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



IMHO, Google would never be foolish enough to use large numbers of outbound links as de facto evidence of a "scraper site"

There's a lot they can do in the name of testing/algo tweaking.

6:42 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Anyone can summarize what we have analyzed? :)
6:47 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Goog just took away one of the few crumbs it was giving me for my sandboxed site. After being number one for a non-competetive term ( under 5,000 results)since my site went up, I've dropped to ninth. The number one result is now a re-direct to Ebay. The page itself doesn't even exist. And who says you can't out-smart 200 Phd's? :)
6:52 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



It's not a bug, its an update that isn't done.

If when it settles nothing much changes, then they couldn't accomplish what they were trying, which obviously involves the sandbox, but until it settles there are just things to observe. Drawing conclusions is nuts. It's like drawing conclusions about a car when it is halfway through the assembly line: "hey that car is broken!"

7:01 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



None of our sites ranking well already have been affected and three sandboxed sites have entered the top 10 for most of their keywords. Pure white hate seo, no tricks or gimmicks just the hard work version. Not getting too excited anything could happen the update is so radical.
7:06 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Question: What is the reason that it takes Google updates so long to "settle"?

I'm out of the sandbox, then back in again, then out, then in.

7:11 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



steveb, I agree. I am sure once it settles SERPS will be best possible, technically. Until it settles there will be some like the examples we are seeing, but lets wait.

Watching this google update is fun and also a learning experience. Sites coming out of sandbox is good. Sandbox was anyway not good approach by google to fight spam. Say a new good site on Tsunami help deserves good listing asap.

As of now we can't reach any conclusions, but from current observations (by members discussing in this and other threads) looks like sites most affected are:
1. sites which are doing redirects
2. directories (excluding the top ones)
3. sites with duplicate content

Any thoughts?

7:35 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As of now we can't reach any conclusions, but from current observations (by members discussing in this and other threads) looks like sites most affected are:
1. sites which are doing redirects
2. directories (excluding the top ones)
3. sites with duplicate content

None of those apply to my lost sites, so there must be something else going on.

If it is just an incomplete update or Google still fiddling with their knobs then in some ways that's worse. What other company would roll out an untested multi-day update on a live system with millions of users - without even telling the users that an update was underway or when it was expected to finish?

Even if Google do sort out the SERPS, the loss of goodwill resulting from their communication failure will cost them dearly.

7:42 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My actual serps for subpages have gone up it seems with this update, but the weirdest thing has happened.

Now, when you search for my web site without the www. or .com, it is nowhere to be found. This is not a particularly competitive term. My site has been #1 for this for a year as it should be. It is the domain name and actually a trademarked brand for this particular service. No keywords in the neame like My-Keyword-Keyword-Site. Simply www. mysitename .com. I am not sure if this has happended to anyone else with this update. I would like to hear.

I will leave with one caveat. I did slightly change the title on my site late last week and I hopeful that Google just hasn't re-ranked my main index page. Should have waited until this update was over maybe?

7:49 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)



"It's like drawing conclusions about a car when it is halfway through the assembly line: "hey that car is broken!" "

well, if GM puts that car in the showroom and offers it for sale /test-drives, what are we to think? The horrible results are on Google.com, not on an obscure DC.

8:24 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



They have to push the terrabytes worth of results onto the datacenters somehow. It's unreasonable to expect they can just snap their fingers and do it, especially considering we are talking about something involving nearly a year's worth of new sites (or minamally the older half of that year long queue).

Another couple days is reasonable. Another couple weeks would be broken.

8:36 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



KrisVal <-- web site without the www. or .com, it is nowhere to be found -->

I am seeing a lot of that too, sites that link to a domain coming above the actual domain.

Dazz

8:58 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



But seriously, all of you who are promoting the idea that the press should get a hold of this also need a reality check. Try explaining what happened here to Joe Public - no chance!

You obviously are not in the PR biz. This would be a trivial story to place. I just have chosen not to place it.

8:59 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



web site without the www. or .com, it is nowhere to be found

I'm seeing a lot of this, and I am worried. My domain name is the brand name of my company, and I know people search for my company using that word, but they will see a different thing 1st. They have to click on one thing and then click through to me - crazy. Isn't this misrepresentation of my brand or something?

Usually, the 1st result is a scaper site with passages from my site and a link to it - How is that more relavant that my site.. so why wouldn't it be #1.

These other scaper sites also have links to competitors, so I could easily be loosing business based on my own brand name :(

9:12 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Whoa; I bet Google are quaking in their boots - Not.
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