September 2002 Google Update

It's Official

[nell]

7:15 est I see different results on WWW, WW2, and WW3 in Florida

[Marcia]

Seems they flipped the switch for the new toolbar PR.

[lgn]

Its looks like PR is having a less of a impact.

We are #2 dropping from #1. The #1 site has alot of our keywords, used in an organized sentence structure, not spammy. and they have a PR of only 3. We are PR5.

The industry leader in our sector, is a public traded company, that has huge exposure, and they even have a decent web site. They have a PR8 rating, and they are ranked 56.

[Rick_M]

Not sure if this is the good news some have been looking for, but I'm seeing new "NEW" rankings on www2 from where I am. These are not last months, and they are not the ones I've been seeing the last 24-48 hours. They look MUCH better for me, although there is still the occasional site that I absolutely can not figure out why it's listed under the search terms I'm looking at.

While I know there are usually minor tweaks as the dance is ending, these look more significant (at least for me) as one site went from 10 last month to 60, and now it looks like it is showing up at 4 - will be great if it sticks!

[schleefdaddy]

are we at the end of the dance? middle? any theories? what about sites that have been dropped but still show 'backward links', could they reappear?

[pob123]

Ok, first my sites was dropped completely after all having a good ranking, now I can find them unless I search for the URL and then I don't get the normal result, ie

Cache
links
similar

etc

I just get my <title> showing with no descreption or nothing

Any ideas?

[Alby]

I think the update looks fantastic. Almost all the spammy affiliate sites in my sector are gone... :) I have relly been worried about Google's future because it seemed like all those affiliate sites with multi-keyword-domains were taking over. Google seems to have found a way to get rid of a lot of poorly made affiliate sites which is excellent. :)

[Finder]

Anyone know if the DMOZ directory has been completely integrated in this update yet?

I changed my URL in DMOZ several weeks ago (confirmed) but, although my category in the Google Directory looks much different, the new URL hasn't shown up yet. All but one of the five sites in the cat (including mine with the old URL) has no PR bar at all.

[glengara]

I'm still seeing old results in Yahoogle, has it updated for anybody outside UK/Ireland?

[crobb305]

I am noticing that there are fresh date stamps (27 Sep 2002) showing up. Seems odd that an update AND fresh results are going on at the same time. Maybe the update is settled?

Any ideas?

:)

[mat]

Yep - same here. Wouldn't agree that things are settled, however. Mat

[Westmont]

I am also seeing fresh stamps, but they don't seem to have any impact on the SERP's.

I noticed that, during the dance, www2 and www3 contained old pages (more than a month old). Then came the update on www last night, and it had the old pages. This morning my SERP's remained the same as last night, but Google's cache now contain newer pages. This afternoon a couple of my pages are "fresh" (as of last night), but the SERP's are still unchanged.

It appears that, for whatever reason, Google picked up older pages to run through its algo's, and they "freshen" their cache (at least what they make available for public viewing) without it having any impact on SERP's. Anyone else see this?

Question 1. If the SERP's are based on old pages, how can one optimize current pages?

Question 2. I use server side includes to put the current date in the title of my pages. Does Google not like this practice?

Question 3. I also use SSI for the navigation of my sites. Therefore every page has the same navigation. They are text links which contain the titles of the pages they point to. The titles of the pages contain the topic (keyword) of the page. It's not, in reality, spamming because the title is supported by by the page content. But, would Google consider this as some form of spamming?

[teeceo]

I still have a pr4 but when I look for my site, it gone! It was just there and I don't have a pr0 so whats up?

teeceo.

[pob123]

Join the club of many, looks like google has just dumped loads of sites for no reason.

I have lost over 40 sites in a day :(

[nancyb]

teeceo, not knowing what your site is no one would be in a position to give you an answer to that question for sure. Did you read all of the google update threads, the current one and the one from last month?

During the dance, which is still going on, things can change frequently - you're in, you're out, you're on top, you're on the bottom. Wait awhile till things settle down.

Also, it is best to keep all the update questions to one thread instead of starting new ones :) because it is easier to follow what is going on in an update.

[edited by: nancyb at 5:23 pm (utc) on Sep. 28, 2002]

[hazardtomyself]

Try not to freak out. Last month I had a #2 position for 3 keyword phrases and only a PR3. Now I have a PR5 and I'm on the third page. We're still dancing...You're in, you're out. When all settles I know I'll be back. I bet when I check back tonight I'll be back.

[Rick_M]

I need to correct my earlier post - it is:

www-sj.google.com

where I am seeing "newer" results since the dance started. Not sure if this is something that will stick or a byproduct of the fresh stuff (I am seeing more fresh tags on www-sj than on www1-3

[ikbenhet1]

Sometimes the www2 goes to www shortly, and then back to the old results. when this happened i saw diffrent results from diffent tld's with the same langue preference.
i checked tld's nl be de com, they all had a diffrent site there that wasn't in there in a other tld with the same lang. pref..

[edit] If i go to example: www.google.be with english language, i should get the same results as on www.google.com with english language right?

[edited by: ikbenhet1 at 7:02 pm (utc) on Sep. 28, 2002]

[creep]

I didnt see any changes on www3 since it started then this morning i was seeing my site on the 5th page on www. Down from #2 on www3. And on www-sj.google.com it is the same. Hope this dosent last. I will be cooked

[Rick_M]

from where I'm at, www-sj seems to be:

[216.239.35.100...]

From what (little) I know, this should be the same from everywhere, so I'm curious if this particular google version looks better for everyone, or just me (which would be fine with me :) if it'll move to www)

[Beachboy]

Rick-

I can tell you for a fact that I wouldn't mind in the slightest if the SJ index were to roll out to www intact. :) Well, I can dream, can't I?

[kabune27]

Our business dropped from 8 to 59. Our new top ten competition includes adult sites, spammers, sites in Japanese script and government papers...

Is google trying to flush out the irrelevant? Will this dance be a one-off?

[steveb]

Can someone explain this, I don't know what these pages are...

One www, www2 and www3 my site ranks X in the results for a terms. On www-sj.google.com my site ranks X+1 because a site with two results (like mysite.com and mysite.com/home.html) was truncated to one result. Then on [216.239.35.100...] my site moves to X+2 because the one other instance above me of a site with two page listings is also truncated to one listing.

What do those two pages represent? And why might they give different results? Thanks.

[Learning Curve]

Earlier in this thread I thought the weight of PR may have been increased because some high PR general interest newspaper sites had increased alot in the SERPS in my area of interest (city_name keyword_2).

Now that the dance has settled down it appears a fluke. It turns out that Google indexed the top newspaper sites during our primary election season and there was a higher occurance of city_names on the community pages than usual and, in addition, an off-topic article that included keyword_2.

Given their high PR, the little change of keyword density was enough to skyrocket them into top 5 spots for several city_name keyword_2 searchs. It shouldn't happen again next month.

[shady]

Hi folks from a new member!

I have a relatively new site to which I added a number of pages, linked from the home page.

These too appeared unexpectedly during the 3 days previously mentioned and then disappeared.

Looking at my stats today, I found I was still getting hits on them, from google. I have just checked and found that around 50% of these pages are back in the google index.

Maybe there is hope, after all!

[cbooth7575]

kabune27......my business site has also dropped from a nice #6 to #86! Many of the top ten sites are at least relevant to the keywords, but looking through some of the sites that have found their way into the rest of the results (ie. between 10 and 80), they don't appear to be even remotely relevant....

It sounds like many sites may be going through similar shifting right now. i'm just going to turn off my computer, cross my fingers, and give up on it for a while. Hopefully when I check back in a day or two things will be resolved...

...now let's just hope I can wait that long!

[Michael61]

Is the dance really at end?
I miss a site which I submitted in the beginning of september and which was spidered from google from 14-25 Sept nearly everyday.
It could already be found for some days but now it disapeared. I only can find the external links to the site in google. Even from sites which set the link on the last days.

Could i be punished? But when i dont now for what?

Or should i submit it again?

[mikeputnam]

Martin:

"I just want to unsubscribe from the notifications ;-)"

Me too! I can't seem to find a way to stop the barrage of "Google News" reply notifications. I've sent private messages and emails to WebGuerrilla and others, but no response. I has initially requested notifications during the "China blocking Google" thread. Alas, the news story is over but I get notifications everytime some SEO thinks the Sept/Oct update has begun. BTW has it begun!?!?! :)

[Beachboy]

Martin and Mike....

See top of page for control panel, then go to Forum Watch List. I *think* you can opt out of notifications there.

[c1bernaught]

OK, I assume the "dance" is done and changes from this point out are related to the "flux" effect.

I have to say that I see more blatant spam in the serps than I have ever seen before. It's like this months algo actually rewards spam. This doesn't seem consistant with Google's desire for relevent hits for end users.

I'm not sure how to react. On one hand I understand Google's need to make changes that keep the PRO SEO's off balance, on the other hand, it seems that Google has gone too far in this recent algo and, in my opinion, they have really hurt themselves, and a lot of us.

I didn't fare too badly in this index, although I now see serious spam on the first and second pages of my search terms.

I don't know.

[pob123]

c1bernaught

Out of interest what do you mean by the "flux" effect

Paul