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Update Florida - Nov 2003 Google Update Part 4

         

Kackle

5:57 am on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)



Continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]

Kackle - can you explain the "dictionary" for me? And how I might benefit from it - Im reading your posts hard but dont see where youre coming from.

Sure. But you have to act quickly. Google will fix this one just like they fixed the hyphen.

1. Google is depreciating pages/sites that are over-optimized for certain keywords or keyword combinations. It does this by looking up search terms in a dictionary of target keywords or keyword pairs that it has compiled. This dictionary is Top Secret, because if you knew what was in the dictionary, you could avoid these words in your optimization efforts.

2. If the search term or terms hit on a dictionary entry, the search results for that user's search are flagged. This means that before the results are delivered, the order of the links, or even the inclusion of links, are adjusted so as to penalize pages that have overoptimizated for those terms. Most likely the title, headlines, links and anchor text are examined. It's possible that external anchor text pointing to that page has also been pre-collected and is available for scanning, but this is much less likely. (Besides, external links are not something within your immediate control, so don't worry about it right now.)

3. You want to find out which keywords that are relevant to your site are in Google's dictionary. Compile as many relevant keywords you can think of that searchers might use to find your site. Now take these words singly and in pairs, according to how users might search. Run two searches for each combination and compare the results.

4. If the results are strikingly different for the pre-filter and the post-filter search on a particular term or combination of terms, it means that some variation of those terms has been flagged because something was found in Google's dictionary.

5. Do lots of searches and you can come up with a list of "sensitive" words that you'll want to avoid when you re-optimize your pages.

It's a nice weekend project.

Dave35London

6:47 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What precisely do you mean over-optimize? Optimizing is basically looking at the characteristics of top ranking pages and emulating them.

rainbow

6:53 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



These results will drive Google's users totally crazy. I'll give you an example:

the search for keyword8 <country name> on www-va brings up more than 3,5 million results, me at #2 with a sub-sub-sub page (PR 0). keyword8 is a very very generic term resulting in more than 17 million pages on Google. It's really our 8th keyword as we use it only for descriptive purposes.

The search for keyword1 keyword8 <country name> on the same datacenter has only a total of 33,600 pages. And we cannot be found at all.

Keyword1 is the name of the industry I'm working in. A search for keyword1 shows my site on -va on #80 the index page being a PR6

Both keywords apear in the title of the page, both twice in the body. There's no description for this page.

Does this sound like anyone will like the results? Anyone any questions?

rainbow

7:02 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



to flicker:
Thanks for remembering me of the "-wqwqzw" test procedure.

>>> The search for keyword1 keyword8 <country name> on the same datacenter has only a total of 33,600 pages. And we cannot be found at all.

I repeated that with the "-wqwqzw" and my sub sub sub page shows up #1 plus a second much more relevant page from my site. Hope this helps

allanp73

7:03 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What I mean by over optimized is as I said...
It looks like Google prefers one of the following keywords in h1, in meta title, in text, or in links but not all of these together. If a site has keywords all of the above then it gets penalized. I have checked this over and over an see the same results.

prejudice

7:05 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)



I have posted a few times on this thread now and I'm still no closer to why my site has slipped so far down the serps.

So today I downloaded that abc tool for checking pagerank across the data centers.

Having inputted the url of my site into the program, the results report "Dea" in every slot per data center, instead of a pagerank value.
I have inputted some of my other sites and it works fine.
Does anyone know the reasons for this? PLZ

As for this google update, being totally truthful some of the results are not quite a bad as some are making out. My sites are far down the serps unfortunately, but once I figure out why this is then I can go forward.

My favourite set of results so far are at [labs.google.com...]
lol - I don't think that set of result counts anything towards the latest update, but the results are completely different :)

cayenne

7:05 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Dave35,

That top 10 site for "jewelry" is one of the most un-optimized sites I've ever seen.

I Hope G's Investment Bankers are not reading this stuff. If so, they must be heading for the hills!

-c

rfgdxm1

7:10 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>What I mean by over optimized is as I said...
It looks like Google prefers one of the following keywords in h1, in meta title, in text, or in links but not all of these together. If a site has keywords all of the above then it gets penalized. I have checked this over and over an see the same results.

Again, NO. My 2 amateur sites happen to have all the above, and I have NOT dropped for the relevant keywords.

Nicola

7:10 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've NEVER EVER seen so many message board messages appearing in the SERPS and when you get to those pages the topic of discussion has moved on to something else, so you have to check the cache to find the words which triggered the result.

Google WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!?!

This is total madness!

pele

7:10 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Dave35London,

I believe it! My jewelry site vanished after being #2 or #3 and always in the top ten position on a certain two word search for 2yrs. Noticed the other top tens also have dropped drastically or disappeared. Now just junk coming up in the results.
Noticing an increase of other search engines in the referral stats. At least I'm still #2 or #3 in those.
Trying to find good search results now has been a waste of time. I've switched to other search engines myself now. Hope they sort the mess soon.

lasko

7:12 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



(a real estate site selling ranches) is top ten for jewelry. Can anyone beat that?

:)

Thats a classic!

Can't really comment on that much.

rfgdxm1

7:15 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>That top 10 site for "jewelry" is one of the most un-optimized sites I've ever seen.

Check that backlinks and you'll see how it got there. I have a suspicion that the page used to have relevant content for "jewelry".

Nicola

7:17 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Junk is the right word for this. You have to look at this from a users point of view, and if this is the standard of results users are going to get, they may start to visit another engine. :(

Kackle

7:22 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)



Has anyone dropped like a rock with a page or site that is one or both of the following?

1) The domain does NOT end in .com

2) The page is in a language other than English

chinook

7:29 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Another point in all of this is the economic impact. There was a feeling that commercial sites should just go and pay for listings, before that comes to be consider this:
Small business when taken in total is probably larger than big business.
Small business doesn't have the same deep pockets as big business (as the cost of adwords spirals).
75 % of small businesses web traffic was coming from google.
Small business is the quickest to adapt, which means less traffic, less business, less investment back into the economy. ( I know we will now hold off on some stuff)
The global impact of the de-commercialization of google should not be underestimated.

off topic , gotta wonder about Brett's bandwidth bill this month?

AjiNIMC

7:30 pm on Nov 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Who is at fault , that my site is nowhere, Is it me or google? I have the kws in h1,text,link,title......am I getting a penalty.

Aji

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