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P.S. I won't be posting as often (gotta work, ya know :), but I will be checking this post and chiming in when there's something I can add.
I have a site with a front door (widgets-wadgets.com/index.html), that then directs to different main language index pages (e.g. widgets-wadgets.com/english/index.html, widgets-wadgets.com/french/index.html etc.).
The top index door is a PR4, (with 17 links coming in shown in Google) the inner language pages are PR3.
But, now here's the odd thing: I also have about 30 into the *English* page directly showing. I got these to boost that English page but they don't seem to have any effect.
I think those thirty on their own would be enough to give that English index page a PR4 even without any other links. yet its a PR3 just like the other language index pages.
It looks like PR is now estimated for a site based on its connectivity to the root index. Anyone else noticed this?
[added] I don't think these are real PRs, I think they're starting points in a continuous PR calculation [/added]
[edited by: tiappon at 11:15 am (utc) on June 17, 2003]
I found that out hard this update. A one year old site that has had top ranks disappeared and when adding the filter to the search, it reappeared. A little digging found that a competitor had made FOUR doorway duplicates of my site. Apparently, MY one year old site was penalized and his new doorway page was ranking top 12 for the terms.
It would be kind of funny if it wasn't costing me money ;).
Anyway, this leads me to ask if some kind of stricter guideline is being used in the new algo to determine duplicate content... comments GG?
For example : A search for "blue widgets" returns 1,000,000 results on one datacentre and it returns 1,500,000 on another is the second results more indicative of how the update will end up simply because more results are returned.
Are the result found in www-fi.google permanent as I found my backlinks for 1 site have fallen from 103 to 19.
I know everyone should wait until the update is over, but this has been a trend for my site the past 3 updates and still going. I have over 170 original content pages, add at least 5 more each month, and each update another 30% is dropped from google on average. I'm adding good clean content but google is dropping my content faster than I can add it. Very frustrating to say the least.
I was also ranking #5,#8,#9 for "blue widget", "green widget" and "red widget"...where's now I'm at #64, #128, #142. This happened before Dominic, and I waited as everyone claimed I should do....it's continuing to drop now with this update.
I'm baffled, as I don't feel I'm breaking any rules or even close, but I can't help but wonder how much worse this is going to get before it gets better.
The only thing I can think may have happened was my host was hit with a DOS attack about 10-14 days ago. Given the fact that the dance started yesterday, does it sound like two weeks ago could have been a critical time when Google would have been calculating backlinks for the upcoming dance? By the way, doing a allinurl: for my site shows all inner pages indexed, so I dont know why at least they would not be showing. Thanks
On a side note, we have moved up 34 notches in the Yahoo search (which uses google right?)
Read the thread from dominic - read the update faq - it is all perfectly clear. We don't know what the final results are going to be, if they are going to be static, if they are going to be fluxing for another month. Honestly, we don't think Google themselves evne know because the secret sauce is still simmering and being seasoned to taste.
""I have awoken to find the fresh tags gone""
I have been following your posts, please explain what you are talking about fresh tags gone.
I checked, mydomain.com has a zero pagerank and www.mydomain.com has pr(6), google sometimes bans the one domain, so preference is given to your main www.mydomain.com in the rankings.
How can you find if your index.html has vanished from the index?
I did a search for "mydomain.com" and found my site listed, and checked the page was cached, but could it be out ofthe index?
Used to be a site acheived top ranking by combining two factors
1. Content Relivance (Optimizing for a phrase or two, not trying to capture LOTS of phrases and balanced density (so you didn't look like a worthless spam page) was combined with..
2. Page Rank. Inbound links from sites from (preferably other High PR sites with similar content/theme.
Now all bets are off.. Its all wacky because of the following:
Title tag has been devalued. This hurts google because when you do searches you get results with spammy titles (lots of text like full sentences and , junk, junk, junk (someone trying to capture lots of phases) and it makes you not want to look at the results. The old way of having priority on the TITLE made it so the sites with CLEAN titles about the topic came up first, especially those with high PR. This isn't the case anymore.
This is how I used to be able to explain the system to people: (to clients who wanted to put all kinds of words in their title, meta and body - be spammy)
I would say "GOOGOLE DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT"
It's like when you were a kid and tried to start a fire with a magnifying glass..
The sun represents PAGERANK (people pointing at you)
The magnifying glass is your page (optmization).
You need both to be on the first page.
Remember when you had the magnifying glass and it was a large circle.. It would get warm (this is someone trying to capture lots of words/phrases) but not hot enought to start a fire (appear on the first page) So you might get on page 10 for lots of things but not on page 1 for anything.
So you need to focus on a phrase or two. Then your page is in 'FOCUS'
Of course if you have no links pointing at you, (Sun) its like an overcast day and no matter how focused you are you aren't going to start a fire.
Both of these things are WHACKED now (Google isn't finding lots of links.. Almost as if they threw out their old records and need to find things again (I hope) fresh and weren't able to in this update..)
They also don't seem to care about optimization anymore in that you can optimize for tons of stuff (spammy) and they will put you over someone optimized for only a few things.
When you do searches and you see the wacky (often long) titles remember this post.
Honestly though, I expect things to get more like they were after a few months.
-Wayne's 2 cents
mauijaws, that sounds like we weren't able to fetch pages from your site--often that's the case if only the url shows. It could be that we just ran out of space or time. I wouldn't worry too much, esp. since we were able to crawl some pages. I would think we'd be able to find most of your pages over time.
At 11:55 pm on June 16, 2003 Google Guy says (emphasis added):
One cautionary word of advice: take everything with a grain of salt, and make choices that are common sense to you and work well for your users. For example, there was recently a thread that suggested Google was running out of "address space" to label our documents. I was talking to another engineer here and he said he almost fell out of his chair laughing when he read that.
The Words to Remember. At 11:55 pm on June 16, 2003 Google Guy says:
One cautionary word of advice: take everything with a grain of salt.
Also notice that much of March's "new" stuff (now old) seems missing, and PageRank flucuating wildly.
Have a few domains that lost a few hundred backlinks and a few more that gain a few hundred.
The only common thread between all of these is the time the bulk of the project was crawled.
It's flux nonetheless, shouldn't read anything into early highs or lows!:)
My site has been around for about 7 weeks and is only showing 30 links with a domainname.com -w search (PR2). Prior to the start of the update only my site appeared when I searched for the title text in quotations.
Is the results I get from www.google.com right now going to keep changing over the next couple days or is that going to stay pretty much the same?
There are no guarantees here, but in all likelihood the index will continue to change... there is data; a section of the total archive missing or at least part of the algorythm which helps defined ranked positions.
Ranks and listings change as new (fresh) and older pages are mixed together but rarely would this be so dramatic (unless you are one of the unfortunate few to get penalized). The chances that nearly all past top pages now weigh less, and a new totally new group of pages weigh more, tends to reflect... it's far from over.
I tend to agree with you, Fathom. Although with the way Google has been behaving lately who knows! Also, GG's willingness to comment on the new index rather than the usual "wait till the dust settles" mantra is perplexing.
Something just seems off. If the PR that is showing for the new index has settled it is MUCH different than anything I have witnessed. I have a page that is always PR 7 that is now PR 3 - still showing all the backlinks (real clean site). Also, some of the rankings just aren't quite right yet - Google ranking #23 for search engine?