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This is a recap and a prediction topic.
Recall that GG said that the -sj index would move to the other datacenters, then we would see backlinks/spam filters applied across the board.
If this is the case, and if the d.c. datacenter (-dc) just got the -sj index (I saw it bouncing around last night actually); and the cable & wireless (-cw) datacenter got the index on the 15th. *Then* it seems we have 2 days for the index to be propagated to each datacenter (this is a worst-case scenario, as the datacenters may be updated in parallel and may all pop up with the -sj index very shortly).
Since we have 5 datacenters left to go, that brings us 10 days in the future for all datacenters to given the -sj index...which brings us to the 27th. At this time we should see the backlinks/spam filters being applied at every datacenter as deltas/patches (if you will) and the real "dance" will be underway. It will, of course, take considerably less time.
Notice that the prediction of the 27th is, in my opinion, a worst-case scenario; we will most likely see things happen sooner.
Why we have you in such a "free spirit" mood can you please tell us if the monthly (5 weekly...whatever) updates are a thing of the past?
Is this going to be a liquid index of constant change from now on? A simple yes or no will save a zillion threads in the future, and a lot of all of our time :)
"3) once new data is into the system, begin pulling in new algorithms that have been waiting in the wings "
what kind of algo's are these. i mean when you have a clean new update based on a new algo...and all the spam filters are applied, what else are we left with?
I know there is a lot of stuff to consider with such a huge search engine, so i would assume it could be little bits and pieces (bugs i assume) in the new algo which will be clarified as step 3....and i hope this happens during every monthly update...correct?
i am not saying that the -sj results are bad or anything but i would like to know that why is that that -sj results which are not fully operational(spam filter havent being applied, contains old cache, old sites) are being brought live into the real world?..is it coz there is no other alternate to test the new algo?
But in essence, it may be another week or even more until all the data centers have the index. Then it could take a full month until the backlinks, which by extension means new PR, gets added. And then you'll have some cool new stuff for us.
So this update, which if I get it right, may be the last one, will take quite awhile and these Dominic threads will kill us heh heh.
Apologies if I misunderstood anything. But no matter what you helped clear up a lot to get the expectations in order. Basically, wait a month.
UPDATED to add, wow lots of people post at the same time, especially after GG posts.
<edit> I take back that PR comment, alot of sites are number one with no PR.. I dont get it. </edit>
And my last post in this thread, promise, I don't see how Google is so wonderful anyway.. Ink results are fresher and more pertinent for the searches I try as a user.
(thus the "more than weeks, less than months" comment)
The rest are for anyone.
If a site was doing great on all the new datacenters and then took a dive late last night, would that be considered the effects of one of the new filters rolling in?
Would a site that has added a lot of new links more likely be adversely affected by the craziness than one that has not added new links or changed its linking structure in awhile?
What stock should i invest in to get the best return over the next three years?:) (Don't say Google, that basket is already full)
If I was one of these paranoid dudes I'd conclude that the quickest way to get penalized is to:
1) say nice things about Google
2) report blatant spam as I'm told too
3) have squeaky clean site
4) buy adwords
[edited by: steveb at 9:01 am (utc) on May 19, 2003]
Google - Searching 3,083,324,652 web pages
But how correct is this in the strict context of the new indexes now present on 7 of the nine data centers? A lot of comment here suggests that much of what was/is present in the about to disappear index is currently absent on the new.
When the rollover is complete and before the new data is added can we expect the published number of 3,083,324,652 web pages to be revised downwards?
Looks like -ab and -zu data centers now have the updated results.
-in, -ex, remember, Just Say No to Dregs
In an unprecedented move the -in index has decided to fight back, launching a DNS attack against the EVIL -sj index. Al the Smear network reports that over 800 servers were lost in the attack. It was a gory scene. "There was feathers and penguin blood everywhere" muttered a google employee, as he nervously poked at his m & m's. As if to emphasize the fact, a large penguin blood covered plastic ball rolled quietly through the frame.
And then things were right again. Backlinks flowed from the skies and surfers suddenly grew intimately fond of #5 and below.</;)>
SteveB, I haven't bought adwords but other than that...
Hopefully, things will be good again soon.
Googleguy: If people have constructive comments for this index, I gave a method back in msg #24 of giving us specific searches or types of searches that you consider good or bad. I just checked, and I don't mind telling you that so far it's a single digit number of reports.
That's because nobody is quite sure which index is looking like the "final version" - is it going to be like CW, SJ, FI? WWW flicks between so many of the datacentres the results change all the time... On some my site has stayed put, on others it's climbed places, on others it's dropped completely off the face of the planet...
I'm sure you will get lots of reports once people know and the bloomin' thing settles! ;)
I just did my monthly review on our principal keywords in AltaVista and AllTheWeb. These serps are full of spam, duplicate sites and just plain poor results. They obviously have very poor algos to weed out the junk.
With Google we at least have a constantly updated search engine with many of the worst cases of Spam eliminated. Sure things right now are not perfect for everyone - they never will be. But in the end, when all of this straightens itself out, Google will still be the #1 search engine with the best results - IMHO.
joined:Mar 6, 2003
That's what happens when you dump Google and deploy Inktomi ;-)
joined:Mar 6, 2003
I think the plan will be
1) deploy the new index/system across all data centers
2) begin pulling in more data (i.e. newer backlinks, pages, and spam updates)
3) once new data is into the system, begin pulling in new algorithms that have been waiting in the wings
I believe the current status is that we're around step 1.5 or thereabouts; something like 7 or so data centers have the new index/system. I expect the current pace of switching data centers to continue about as it has been. I would expect step two to occur over roughly the same timeframe as a typical index cycle (thus the "more than weeks, less than months" comment). Step 3 is longer-term and ongoing, but I'm really excited about what we'll be able to do to improve quality across the board.
I must be the dumbest one in here...OK, it's helpful that we now *know* that this will go on for another month.
And certainly, Google has enough credibility that if GG says the SERP's will be better than ever, soon, then that is reassuring to a point.
In the meantime however, as many Webmasters appear to be twisting in the wind (how's it going today, rfgdxm1?), I'm still left wondering at what appear to be basic inconsistencies:
>> GG keeps saying in effect "be patient, be patient" things will soon be great...But then at other times, implies that Google is already happy with -fi etc results as is.
>> Many of us are waiting to file SPAM reports because GG says everything will change, but then GG wonders why few are filing reports yet.
So which is it? Does Google think the SERP's in -fi etc. are of a high quality? Or, does Google think they are a work in progress *that needs a lot of work.* Or, are they a *quality work in progress* that still needs some work. Or...?
Unless I am misunderstanding this, it looks like we will be seeing the new index for about a month before any data from the past 2 months is included?
The typical index cycle is about 4 weeks. I wonder if they will scrap the data from the April crawl and just do another deep and use that for July?
Really bad news if this is the case.
Point: If Google was not going to use the April crawl data then why crawl at all? Unless something unforeseen happened *after* the April crawl that caused the -sj stuff to start.
I'm not sure I believe this is what happened though. I think we'll see the April crawl folded into the index over time (hopefully not too much time as my site is completely gone from the current index :), then we'll see Deep back after/during this time period.
While Google is in the process of spending "more than weeks, less than months... to improve quality across the board," I would appreciate your sending me an "Excuse Letter" that I can send to all my clients, stating in part:
(1) NetGuy really isn't as stupid as he may now seem. There have been some major changes at Google that he has no control over;
(2) Don't blame him for keeping your websites clean, while all your competitors maintain the top 3 positions using hidden text, link farms, and invisible image maps. His methods will pay off in the "long run."
(3) Don't blame him for not receiving a response on any spam reports, since we are working hard to get a new spam algo introduced in the "next index cycle."
Although this won't make all my clients happy, it would be a start.... In the mean time, I guess we'll just double up on the AdWords.
SPAM - Sites Positioned Above Mine
From what GG says, it looks like this is the new index for this month as it sits. It looks as if this index was rolled out using older back link data for whatever reason.
What you see now is going to be your spots for a couple weeks at least, probably longer.
Bringing in back links and newer data over weeks just takes us into a new index time frame anyway and they will probably just use the data from the next deep crawl instead of the data from the last two.
Why did they throw out the last two months deep crawl data, who knows!
If you’re waiting for back links to be brought in over a few days you might as well give up waiting. GG said it will be weeks.
So if your bosses or clients are complaining just tell them there is not a lot you can do about it other than to keep working on your site and move forward.
If this is wrong, then GG feel free to correct my summary of this months dance.
So, make sure your sites are up when the deepbot comes knocking!
I agree that it seems odd that they would not use the April crawl data. However, it wouldn't make much sense to use the April crawl for the new June index either.
Either way this is a pretty lousy deal. Most likely, we will see February data used for scoring June results pretty soon :(