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Because the money seems to appear out of "no-where" to my wife, she doesn't seem to have the same sort of reality check that most people would when there is an actual store, stock, staff etc. She sees a few hundred grand sitting in the account and thinks "hey, we're rich! I'm going to spend!". Of course, I can't make money if I've got an angry wife screaming and crying so I generally give in on every single occasion. My thinking being that I can make more money if she's spending but happy than not spending and making me miserable. Does that make sense?
As far as she's concerned, the amount of money I'm earning each month will be constant and carry on till I'm sixty. No matter how much I plead with her that the Internet is fickle and that the cash flow could drop to a tenth tommorrow she doesn't seem to be getting it. I'd imagine that its the "footballers wife" syndrome i.e. dirt poor then suddenly tons of cash coming in and even though the footballer knows that he's out the second he gets a bad injury or turns 35 the wife seems to spend as though the funds are limitless. So many footballers back to being poor again once their out of the game, I don't want that to be me. Anyone else have/having this problem?
She doesn't need a job if I'm paying the maintenance for the rest of the child's life. My earnings are quite high.
I think the court took it more as a sign of irresponsibility on the moms part, not simply because she couldn't afford to take care of the child. When the mom remarried and she had a job for awhile and a two income family, she tried to go back to court and get at least joint custody, and the courts still said no way. This is the U.S. though, so things may be totally different here as to what factors the courts looks at. We've seen cases in friends and family where the wife seemed to come out behind on custody agreements even when the husband was fooling around and walked out on the wife and kids.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 3:31 pm (utc) on July 14, 2006]
Not sure I understand you. Do you mean that I have a desire or a "need" to have someone life-destroying in my life?
No, what I mean is that you are psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on your wife who is addicted to a destructive behavior.
This is the U.S. though, so things may be totally different here as to what factors the courts looks at.
I think that the big issue here is that it is a baby, not a child, and the courts will always say that a baby should be with it's mother for the first few years of it's life. Unfortunately, after those few years the bond will be with the mother and not with me which will go against any future action I might want to raise.
No, what I mean is that you are psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on your wife who is addicted to a destructive behavior.
How am I dependant on her and what for?
Is it possible just to live with her for the sake of the child, pay the house, tax and all that and not give her ANY money?
Definitely not a healthy arrangement. Children can literally feel the emotions shared between Mother and Father.
internetheaven, if I were your advisor, I'd strongly suggest that you have a "sit down" with Mom and lay down the law. It's time for you to put on your "pants" and do the right thing. Not only for you, but for your child too.
Your business accounts should be totally separate from personal accounts. Your wife should not have that kind of access to business accounts. Give her an allowance each month and tell her that is it.
If you end up going down the divorce route, just be prepared for the outcome. In 8 out of 10 cases, the mother is going to win. And, if she has not been working and you've been the sole provider, expect to pay the "alimony" which can be quite significant depending on your income. I've been there, done that and it can break you. The child support is mandatory and that's just something that "you have to do" as a responsible Father.
How am I dependant on her and what for?
Only you can know that. But you have tried to leave thrice before, she is making you miserable and endangering your buissness. You donīt stand up to her but let her continue her spending spree, you take the blame and swallow the accusations when she yells and complains over something that is her fault. You let her open your letters.
Just split, and donīt use the child as excuse not to.
Your wife should not have that kind of access to business accounts. Give her an allowance each month and tell her that is it.
With one of the people I know, the husband did do that with the wife and that has preserved their finances. She was really mad about it but that was that. He put her on a very strict allowance eventually and it did curb her spending. It isn't a super happy household, but it is no less happy than before and at least now she hasn't been able to deplete their retirement funds.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 4:38 pm (utc) on July 14, 2006]
Her parents divorced and her mother is one of most self-absorbed people I've ever met ... negative self-absorption too, the kind of person that loves it when negative things happen to them because they get to do the whole "poor me" act. Her younger sister is the same way and she's only 16.
This description reminds me of my neighbours. The mother is an absolute classic case of Narssisistic (spell?!) Behaviour Disorder. Nothing is ever her fault, it's always someone else, usually her (2nd) husband. Sadly, we can see exactly the same behavioural traits emerging in her 16-year old daughter and beginning in the 3-year old.
Children, particularly female ones, learn and copy from their mother's behaviour. That's why the old adage about checking out the MiL before marrying the daughter is a good one. My husband would probably definitely agree here, he hadn't met my mother when we got married. ;)
It's highly unlikely your wife will change, and as long as you keep bailing her out, she won't have to face up to reality.
You probably don't want to hear this, but there are two important people you need to think about here. No 1 - you; and No 2 - your daughter. For God's sake, do everything you possibly can to ensure she doesn't end up with the same behavioural problems.
You probably don't want to hear this, but there are two important people you need to think about here. No 1 - you; and No 2 - your daughter. For God's sake, do everything you possibly can to ensure she doesn't end up with the same behavioural problems.
Exactly, thanks. It has bothered me the number of people that have been saying "get a spine and leave", there's no way I could leave a child with her, even if it wasn't mine! If a full-grown man can't stand up to her for more than a month (my personal record before giving in! it cost me dearly though ...) then what chance does a new born baby have? I had a mother like her, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Yes, yes, Freud and the men-want-to-marry-their-mothers theory, I know. In my defense, I thought I was marrying the opposite of my mother!
Yes, yes, Freud and the men-want-to-marry-their-mothers theory, I know.
I don't think it's so much as marrying your mother, but sometimes for people who grow up surounded by family members who would all make great guests on the Jerry Springer show, weird behavior in others seems more normal than it really is because that is all they've ever known.
It's hard to always make the best choices in people you let into your life as an adult when you don't have a good frame of reference from your childhood as to what constitutes normal behavior.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 4:47 pm (utc) on July 15, 2006]
I met a girl late last year who is possibly the single most manipulative individual I have ever come across. Unfortunately, I was absolutely blind to it at the time and I am only now coming to terms with this.
I spent five weeks in January and February with her (she lives in a Mediterranean country) and she wrecked the entire month for me financially. At the time I was high on "keeping her happy" and so it didn't dawn on me quite how much I was spending.
Reality began to set in at the end of February at which point I walked away from her - which was incredibly painful because I still had a huge emotional attachment to her - and then for March, April, May and June I have been mostly an emotional wreck - incapacitated with near-depression - blaming myself for everything falling apart, failing to keep her happy enough, feeling that I have lost the one great love of my life etc.
However, I can't doubt that if I had stayed with her then in place of four months of emotional pain I would have carried on being financially wrecked every month from March to June. And she wouldn't have become more responsible or more considerate or less selfish or less manipulative. I can't guarantee even that I would have suffered much less emotional pain - I know that I would have felt constant pressure to keep "topping up" her happiness (like a fix) just in order to feel normal.
I regret to say I still miss her hugely, despite the fact that it's not in my rational interest to do so. But, I can begin to admit to myself that I cannot help but be better off without that sweet, addictive, engaging, magnetic, destructive influence in my life.
I have no choice but to pull the money out of somewhere to pay for bills etc
I've been through this. You do have a choice. While she doesn't see consequences to her actions, she will continue the behaviour. Stop bailing her out. Let her suffer. It's cruel short term, but she needs to learn that enough is enough. Let the phone get disconnected.
The more you bail her out, the worse you make it for all. I speak from experience. I know you say she'll get angry and freak out. Well, tough. Let her get angry and freak out. She's a toddler having a tantrum because she can't have her toy credit card. Let her get upset. I don't say this in a demeaning way (as I'm just as if not more guilty than you) but be a man and stand up to her.
Remember, she is the one with the problem, not you. She has and will try her hardest to make it your problem. If you let her, you are just making the problem worse. Any time you ever discuss this, remember, it's HER problem. When she tries to make it yours, and she will, remember every 10 seconds - it's her problem. The second she twists it around, put it back on the straight and narrow. This is HER problem. The anger is HER problem. The tantrum is HER problem. Not saying you should be vindictive, a bad husband, whatever, you need to support her, but bailing someone out isn't supporting someone, it's enabling their bad behaviour. She might hate you short term, but in the end she'll be a better person for it.
And, she sounds similar to my spouse in many ways (as you can gather probably).
If you do stay then you've got to develop an iron will. Bear in mind that you cannot stay on as her husband if you want things to change. You have to become her father - at least for a few years. I mean a proper father, not an idiot who bails her out and doesn't teach her the error of her ways. You have to be tough, strict - almost mean. Your mental laziness and moral cowardice has to end. Don't give me that rubbish about being able to be tough in business but not with your wife. That's all in your head.
Everyone else has said about taking control of your finances. Just do it. When she phones from the shop I can't believe you just put more money into the account. You are teaching her that there are no consequences for her actions. When she next does that remember that your child will learn from your actions. Start taking some responsibility for what you are doing.
Now here's the problem and the whole reason I recommend divorce. You won't be able to do all the things I mentioned above. I'd love to think you could. You should be able to. There is no good reason why you couldn't, but let's face facts - it isn't going to happen. I don't think you have the strength of character to deal with the utter misery that she will inflict on you which is the reason why you haven't carried off previous attempts. I do hope you will gain the necessary mental strength and prove me wrong. Good luck.
[edited by: walkman at 12:02 pm (utc) on July 18, 2006]
Mack.
Let the phone get disconnected.
Ummmm ... small baby being born in a couple of months? Plus it wouldn't do any good. If you read my previous posts we've already had things disconnected, card rejected, baliffs knocking at the door etc. etc. etc. it doesn't change a thing. I'm to blame when this happens for not earning enough money to pay for it or (my personal favourite) it's my fault for not physically restraining her from buying things.
Let her get angry and freak out. She's a toddler having a tantrum because she can't have her toy credit card. Let her get upset.
For how long? One month? Two months? I can't go that long with a tantrum, does that make me "not a man" to cave in after weeks of torture?
And, she sounds similar to my spouse in many ways (as you can gather probably).
I doubt it if the tactics you're suggesting worked with her. I've already tried all these things.
Ok, 2 choices. Stay with her or leave.
And never see my daughter ... you forgot that part of the second option ...
What you should do for the happiness of yourself (important - remember that!) and your kid is get divorced.
How does leaving the kid with such a self-obsessed person benefit that child?
Don't give me that rubbish about being able to be tough in business but not with your wife. That's all in your head.
No, because I can fire, sue, stop trading with a business. She's there all the time.
I don't think you have the strength of character to deal with the utter misery that she will inflict on you which is the reason why you haven't carried off previous attempts.
Some confusion here. I tried to leave because of the utter misery she inflicts. I didn't leave because in the first instance she swore she would change, in the second instance somone convinced me to give it another shot and in the third instance she threatened to kill herself.
As far as your kid, it seems like eventually you will be separated regardless,
Unfortunately this truth is becoming clearer to me each day ... I've started being stricter because we need some money left over to raise a child and it's not going very well. Whether I leave her because of how she is or she leaves me because I won't support it anymore, either way she leaves with my daughter ...
mack - please see previous messages. She empties every account early each month so I have to pull money from elsewhere to pay for fuel, food, electric etc. when we run out of money I have to take out loans/overdrafts etc.
She empties every account early each month
You can also try to get important bills paid directly or even paid in credit. If electric is coming in at $100 a month on average then pay $100 by standing order to the electric board each month without it even touching your personal or joint accounts. That way you only need to deal with the payment if it is over $100. There is much to be said for having a credit balance with your suppliers.
From my personal experience I answer this with a simple YES!
BTW: Tthis attitude is not limited to partners (wifes/husbands) - its the same with family, friends, buddies and almost everybody else - even clients express this (clients I am suppose to do internet marketing for).
Get rid of your wife and spend the saved money for professionals. You know, the woman who make you feel like a real man for a fraction of the costs of a wife...
Sorry, saw this late.
Your coming child/daughter is "colateral damage" to what your wife is doing.
I know it is hard. My son is living 4.500 km away from me and I see him maybe twice a year.
Its called emotional blackmail...suicide attempts, child manipulation etc...
Unfortunately there is no golden rule...you need to do what you can live with.
It's not just successful internet industry people who accidentally marry greedy, irresponsible, self-centered nutbags... it can happen to anyone.
The others are right... you can't change her and you can't make her see reason.
Unfortunately, you are also right in that if you leave you won't get as much access to your kid(s). Women end up with the kids unless there is something criminally wrong with the mother (and even then... they still get all the breaks when it comes to custody).
Regardless, if you stick this out, you'll either end up a defeated, sad, husk of a man who is past his prime and miserable... or you'll snap and do something stupid like hit her and then your butt will be in jail and she'll be serving you with divorce papers anyway (and you REALLY won't be able to see your kid(s) much).
You're in a pretty sucky situation anyway you look at it, but you've got to make the best of what you have... so I vote for unload her, move on, try to be happy... and get a lawyer who will get you joint physical custody and summers with your kid(s).
:(
Hang in there...
Ive just sat in on a Social services meeting where the kids, male and female, are hitting the age where they can determine whats going on around them as a result they are going way off the rails.
The boys treating females like the father does i.e violently and without any respect and the girls behave like tramps, just like their mother.
Deal with this problem before your kid catches on!
For how long? One month? Two months? I can't go that long with a tantrum, does that make me "not a man" to cave in after weeks of torture?
(coming in on this late ...)
There's a psychological term called an "extinction burst" ... it refers to how someone responds when a behavior that worked reliably in the past suddenly ceases to yield results.
An everyday example: Let's say you work on a 3rd floor office and take the elevator every morning. Day after day, you get into the elevator, push the button, the doors close and it takes you to the floor. One day you get into the elevator, nothing happens. What do you do? You push the button again. Nothing. You push the button harder - nothing. You push the button 3 times - nothing. You push the button ten times in a row really really hard.
Does that make any sense? No, but that's an extinction burst. Behavior which was reinforced (pushing the button) fails to produce a result (elevator moves) so you try louder, longer, harder.
Essentially, that's what your wifes tantrum is.
Back to the elevator: If one of your strategies worked today, you'd do the same thing the next day if pushing the button once didn't work. In fact, you'd probably stay in there and hammer at the button even longer, because that worked yesterday. If pounding on the button hadnt succeeded in the past, you'd be more likely to get right out and take the stairs.
Giving in to an undesired behavior AT ALL reinforces it. The longer you wait before reinforcing it, the more endurance the tantrum-thrower develops. So when do you give in? Never, never, never or it will happen again and again and again.
I was in a toxic relationship once. I won't presume to say I "know how you feel". I don't. But I can relate to your pain. The "aha!" moment for me was learning was that I couldn't change the other person, but could change myself...
I can't tell you what that means... only you have the answer..but repeating the same patterns of behavior between the two of you over and over again isn't it.
[edited by: MamaDawg at 12:54 pm (utc) on July 19, 2006]
does that make me "not a man" to cave in after weeks of torture?
Not at all. You sound like a someone who is trying to do the right thing, and also someone who will make a very loving and caring father in a couple of months.
But you know it takes two to make a dysfunctional relationship. If you want to do right by your child, it sounds like you've got to continue to seek counseling until you find a therapist you click with, go alone if your wife won't go with you, and really try to understand and maybe get some books on subjects like codependency, "tough love" and enablers.
You are married to someone with addictive and self destructive behavior and, in the U.S. at least, there are many books, therapists and support groups that specialize in helping spouses in those types of relationships.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 12:58 pm (utc) on July 19, 2006]
If you don't learn to deal with this then you are in for 18 more years of hell.
A therapist can help you with this issue; stop saying they can't. Get one that will work on this problem with you. What matters is you; not why she spends or her parents or where the money comes from or the internet.........
similar to AlaNon in the US; it's for the family members of the drinker - helping them cope with the issue.
They don't endlessly discuss why the person is drinking or how or the drinker at all- they discuss themselves and how to cope and get thru.
good Luck
However, I give her a set amount of money each month to do with as she pleases. She has to budget out of that for whatever toys, clothes or whatever she wants for herself. I cover all the housing, cars, fancy trips, gadgets, organic foods and whatever we need. I get some complaints that the allowance is not enough every so often and it's slowly going upward.
Because of her financial troubles before we met (and everyone in her family's trouble as well) and my perfect credit record, we agreed that it's best that I am in complete control of the money. I spread it around to a few accounts and she can only see one of them. So she knows we have money but doesn't know the scale. Sometimes it feels sneaky, but at the same time, it saves all the hassle and bickering that their could be. She has access to it for when I die or whatever, and it's not legally protected from her or anything like that. She just doesn't know about it for temptation.
After six years of giving and providing for her, her mother and what seems like everyone else in the world, I bought myself a new truck with all the bells and whistles. My special treatment for myself. (She got a new vehicle earlier)
On merely the second day of having it, she hits my truck with her car in the driveway. Very minor scrape but still, it's paint damage to mine. Hundreds of dollars to fix. Ironically, the guards I put on her vehicle protected hers and damaged mine. It's probably not related but maybe subconsciously.
let her earn her own damn money!
Without wanting to sound in any way sexist I totally agree. When I say I don't want to sound sexist, what I mean is it works both ways.
To be honest I think you both need each other, only difference is she also needs cash, without you how will she get that?
I suggest you make an appointment to speak with a financial advisor, get a third party opinion on your future financial position, perhaps she just doesn't listen to you or perhaps she believes you are always going to be making the same amount of money.
Either way an independent voice on the issue may make her realise things aren't as rosy as she believes.
Mack.
I have no problem with independent or "house wives," but they can't pick and choose from both sides. I would last less than 15 minutes with a woman like those described on the above posts--I don't care if she was Angelina Jolies' twin sister. I know that is a hard and expensive decision, given the laws, but it will only get worst. They are using you and will dump you as soon as they find one that spends more money on them.
It must be hell to have to live that. My advice is to skip the princess /"I'm hot, so I am entitled" type and go down a few notches on looks for personality. That is if you want to get married at all. If not, you can simply date plenty of girls with no commitment.
Why not try to give them an ultimatum: change spending haits or get ready for a divorce? Once you cut their supply, I bet they will be begging in less than a week as they realize how good they had it.
Why not try to give them an ultimatum: change spending haits or get ready for a divorce?
I think there is too much focus here on the spending problem being the cause for my divorce deliberations. They're not. My original question was whether this spending problem could be the result of the work I do. I was trying to separate it from all the other bad sh*t that goes on. I'm not really that money orientated and would quite happily give up all my money to help family/friends. The problem is that this spending is more a symptom of her self-obsessed state rather than the thing that is annoying me most.
