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Because the money seems to appear out of "no-where" to my wife, she doesn't seem to have the same sort of reality check that most people would when there is an actual store, stock, staff etc. She sees a few hundred grand sitting in the account and thinks "hey, we're rich! I'm going to spend!". Of course, I can't make money if I've got an angry wife screaming and crying so I generally give in on every single occasion. My thinking being that I can make more money if she's spending but happy than not spending and making me miserable. Does that make sense?
As far as she's concerned, the amount of money I'm earning each month will be constant and carry on till I'm sixty. No matter how much I plead with her that the Internet is fickle and that the cash flow could drop to a tenth tommorrow she doesn't seem to be getting it. I'd imagine that its the "footballers wife" syndrome i.e. dirt poor then suddenly tons of cash coming in and even though the footballer knows that he's out the second he gets a bad injury or turns 35 the wife seems to spend as though the funds are limitless. So many footballers back to being poor again once their out of the game, I don't want that to be me. Anyone else have/having this problem?
Treat it as though she's additcted to crack cocaine.
That's really the kind of experience I'm looking to hear on this board. Currently there are three possible answers to why she is the way she is:
1. Is this a "disease" brought on by a sudden influx of money that she can't adapt to?
2. The influx of money came after only two years together, one year married (we've now been married for four years) during which time she got fired from three jobs, the last of which was one month after getting married at which point she never went out to look for work again. Is she just a parasite?
3. I found out about a year into the marriage that in the years preceding our relationship her father bailed her out of all her money problems to the tune of about £10,000. So I thought she was just useless with money and tried to change that - I've totally cleaned up her credit file. But is the problem that she is just selfish and no amount of "financial tutoring" can solve the problem? (And yes, as soon as I started earning larger amounts she decided it was time to pay back her dad with "our money". I wouldn't call that taking responsibility personally ...)
Problem 1 can be treated, problems 2 and 3 can only really result in divorce as far as I can tell, expecially when there is a baby involved. That's my dilemma and the reason I'm posting here, to find out if number one is possible because this is the only industry I can think of where money just "appears" - even footballers have to go out to work.
Only one psychoanalyst got with us long enough to come to a conclusion and he went for number 3 - just plain selfish. The scary thing was that he read out a passage from a diagnosis book and she matched it 99%. I can't remember the condition he called it, I should probably give him a call.
"Get yourself into therapy and get the help you deserve! Good luck! "
Can you explain this in a little more detail?
Get yourself into therapy and get the help you deserve!
I too am not quite sure what you meant by that, but anyway I've already tried it. At one point I did think that it was me that was just "seeing only negatives" and "being too penny-pinching" so I saught treatment myself. The guy said that he needed to meet with my wife aswell to get a perspective and he was the one that I was speaking about earlier that said the problem was with her. At that point she (my wife) quit the therapy and on the next session the guy said that there was no point in me coming to see him on my own as all he would be doing was helping me to come to terms about leaving her.
Got put on anti-depressants and mandatory psychiatric treatment by my doctor after my third attempt to leave her failed (see previous messages). I only had two sessions with the psychiatrist because she basically said the same thing - she could only help me feel less guilty about leaving my wife. Turns out I wasn't actually clinically depressed, I just wasn't happy with the way the marriage was. Of course, it took them four courses of failed anti-depressants to work that out! ... flaming NHS ...
The reason "attempt to leave number four" hasn't taken place is because there is now a baby involved. Again, I don't want to go into huge detail but as regular poster here I don't want people thinking I'm reckless or incompetant (well, more so than they already do!) so I'd like to point out that having a baby was in no way my decision but it is mine. Whilst blunted out on anti-depressants my wife took the opportunity to book herself in for IVF (we'd had some embryos frozen). I don't remember much, only pleading with her not to go through with it.
Note: I really don't want to have a discussion on the above as it is quite personal. It is just that this thread seems to be full of advice that simply can't apply to me/this particular situation such as hiding money and getting treatment. So I thought it best to give a fuller explanation. If we could stay on topic i.e. "do partners of successful internet industry people lack reality on where the money is coming from?" I would really appreciate it. Thankyou all very much for your input and advice but I really don't want this to turn into a "my wife's a b*tch, give me sympathy please" thread. Thanks.
Man, she does not respect you. I do not know if you are a tight ass? If you are maybe she is insecure and does it to punish you. If not then you are in trouble because from personal experience she will be like a stone around your neck unless she gets her own money but then why would she as you got a big wad in the bank?
Being selfish, using others, not caring about the consequences and all the other possibilities put forward as alternatives to addictive behavior are ALL symptoms of addictive behavior.
Addicts don't want to stop - or at least not until or if they reach apoint where they feel they cannot go on, it's not when YOU feel it, it is when they do. They will not stop because someone else wants them to, or because they are destroying themselves or anyone else, or because their behavior is irrational or any other logical sounding reason. Their behavior is not logical and they are not subject to logic.
They will cajoll, persuade, yell, argue, steal, charm, lie, manipulate, do anything to keep their addiction going. They don't care about other people or their feelings except to the degree that it affects them and their ability to continue doing what ever it is they do.
YOU ARE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THIS WOMAN but also the WORST. You are enabling her right along the line. An enabler who is amenable to arguement, threat, manipulation, persuasion, cajolling or charm is an addicts dream. But such an enabler is becomes part of the problem, because they allow the addict to continue with the behavoir without having to face the consequences.
So yes, she needs help - but NOTHING you can do will make her seek or even accept that help until you have stopped enabling her addiction. And you need help to stop doing that, because it is not easy at all. She has already threatened you, and she will do it again. And you are about to have a baby, which sad to say she is likely to use as a weapon against you, which puts her in a very stong position and you in a weak one. Sad to say but that is probably one of her main reasons for having this child - to get more control over you, or more specifically you purse. I even think that, deep down, you already know that. I bet she has already started using the child as a weapon before it is even born. It will be much, much worse once it is.
You have to act, if not for yourself then for that child, whose mother will use it just as she has used you but with much more catastropic results.
I really feel for you - but there is help out there. You need to be looking for help from someone good in the addiction counselling field, for you, not her. At the moment there seems no point for her, but you need help.
"do partners of successful internet industry people lack reality on where the money is coming from?"
With respect, it may have been your question, but it isn't relevant. Do you really think she cares where they money comes from? She lacks reality about money, period. She has a long history of this that predates not just your online earnings but your marriage. Her father was played out, she found you. Your money dries up, she will find someone else. The source of the money is NOT relevant to her - just her ability to get hold of it.
[edited by: abbeyvet at 5:00 pm (utc) on July 11, 2006]
Narcissistic Personality Disorder?
Anyone else have/having this problem?
My husband and I are both tightwads so we never argue about money, but we have a friend, well actually ex-friend, like that, and an in-law. They both have husbands who work hard, they don't work at all, they spend their days shopping, complain bitterly about their husbands faults to anyone who will listen and they have troubled marriages. The one is an ex-friend because I didn't want to be around someone whose major goals in life were shopping all day and getting facial peels and pedicures. The ex-friend complained that her husband suffered from depression yet she couldn't see her negative treatment of him, her self absorption, her continual shopping and spending money as a major contributing factor to his unhappiness.
The ex-friend and in-law both have pretty screwed up childhoods and, perhaps not coincidentally, both were abandoned by their biological parents. They are both actually pretty bright, yet can't keep jobs, they don't have any marketable skills and they shop constantly in a futile attempt to make up for low self esteem. The women I know like your wife have kids who are teens now. Guess what? They don't make great mothers and the kids are all screwed up. The kids end up getting ignored and emotionally abondoned just like the husbands are ignored. One was in therapy for making suicide threats. The moms aren't exactly great role models for having a happy marriages, succeeding at a careers or getting along with others.
Abbeyvet has some pretty good insights.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 5:59 pm (utc) on July 11, 2006]
There have been a lot of good recommendations so far. I see too additional things I want to point out and please don't be offended by them as I'm only trying to offer a outsiders view based on what you have described.
1) You are SERIOUSLY enabling her problem. By giving in you are only making it worse. It's a sad fact, but people will generally fall into a pattern of treating you the way you allow them to treat you. By constantly giving in to whatever she wants, you are training her to be and act a certain way. Until you step up and take control, it won't get any better, and if this relationship ends and you don't change, then it is quite likely this pattern will repeat itself in future relationships.
2) Your relationship with your wife sounds oddly familiar to a relationship I had a few years ago. To me it sounds as if she may not feel the same way about you that you do about her. It sounds to me as if you want to make it work because you care about her. On the flip side, I get the feeling she cares more about her comfort than you (only showing affection when she feels the relationship is in jeopardy). If this is the case, then you will be far better off in the long run to end things quickly. Obviously I only have a mere glimpse of your relationship with her and I may be way off base. Only you will really know the answer to that.
Whatever happens, I feel for you and wish you all the best. Your in a very tough spot.
[added]Man..should have read abbeyvet's post before posting this. Sounds like we are seeing much the same thing[/added]
[edited by: Philosopher at 6:01 pm (utc) on July 11, 2006]
In one case I do know of, a friend of mine who had lot of money coming in, knew it was a temporary rush of money and took time out to explain it to his family. They understood this and their lifestyle although very comfortable didn't become overly expensive. So when they later had a less prosperous phase, they were still driving a large sedan and living in the same house.
It's important to assert yourself. If you don't, you'll be taken for granted and sooner or later you're going to have an ugly confrontation. You sound like you're very emotionally involved whereas your wife seems almost detached entirely. It's time for you to be relatively detached and look at your scenario objectively.
Another strategy can be to reinvest the money back into the business. Go for long term advertising contracts if you're into PPC, buy web sites, buy real estate. Do whatever but get rid of liquid cash and always appear broke to your wife while creating financial security for the family in the process. This shouldn't be difficult to handle since your wife sounds like a novice when it comes to money, anyway. Start with repaying any debts or mortgage you have.
do partners of successful internet industry people lack reality on where the money is coming from?
You've been mentionning this a few times to try and stay on the 'topic' of this post.
I do not mean to offend you - far from it - but I feel as if you are trying to find an excuse for the way your wife behaves by finding similar stories.
As you said, your wife had this problem way before you met her (dad sorting out £10K debt) and it has nothing to do with the fact that your are a successful internet marketer.
Others may have similar stories but at the end of the day it's something to do with the person (ie. your wife) not the line of work you are into.
I do not mean to sound harsh or anything and wish you all the best in this very difficult phase of your life.
... perhaps not coincidentally, both were abandoned by their biological parents.
Her parents divorced and her mother is one of most self-absorbed people I've ever met ... negative self-absorption too, the kind of person that loves it when negative things happen to them because they get to do the whole "poor me" act. Her younger sister is the same way and she's only 16.
But both my parents were incredibiliy selfish to the point where they got turned down for fostering because of the way they treated us as kids. Most of my brothers and sisters are having a real hard time getting their lives together. I did for quite a while but only one of my brothers turned out like them, the rest of us all turned out the opposite. Go figure!
That was my impression of how things went, you see your parents and try not to make their mistakes because you remember how bad it felt.
Until you step up and take control, it won't get any better, and if this relationship ends and you don't change, then it is quite likely this pattern will repeat itself in future relationships.
I have had that concern, certainly if this "relationship" ends then I will be getting help. There isn't much chance of me getting any effective help right now with the way things are.
To me it sounds as if she may not feel the same way about you that you do about her.
I've been thinking about that for days now, mostly how I feel. I'm beginning to think that I'm just not a quitter and it's my passion to suceed at everything that is driving me more than anything else:
It's time for you to be relatively detached and look at your scenario objectively.
Exactly.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Wow! Balam. You in the business? That's exactly it.
I do not mean to offend you
To everyone who has started their post with that message, please don't feel that you have to. I'd be much more offended if you disagreed with my theories on Pagerank! We're not debating what I should do, I was just looking for information to give me a wider scope on the situation.
Thanks everyone.
She clearly has no intention of changing. If she doesn't change, then you are just going to get worse...more depressed, get used more, hurt more...etc. It sounds like her whole family has this disorder. You really don't need this.
Hah, no. It just takes a nut to know a nut... :)
But how well would you have done in your internet business had you kept spending money on a campaign that was producing negative ROI?
Wow, I must have been sat here 20 mins trying to find an argument against that analagy i.e. relationships = business ROI. I couldn't get there.
The only argument that kept coming back was "a marraige is not like a business, you don't cut something just because it isn't working". But that's not completely true is it, the ROI is simply the "good times" resulting from the relationship. Our ROI (i.e. good times resulting from the relationship) is somewhere down at 1%-5% of the time. No exaggeration, there is maybe one or two "moments" a day where we're not arguing or mad at each other. There isn't any coming back from that is there? No matter how much you put in its a dead horse you're flogging ...
I didn't want this thread to head in this direction but I'm starting to feel glad it did. A lot of points raised by you armchair psychologists that I had already thought of, just not heard someone else say which seems to have made quite a difference.
You know, that is EXACTLY how I felt when I was married the first time. I wanted my very unhealthy relationship to continue because I had committed to it, I had defended my awful louse of a husband to ALL my friends and family who disliked him, and I wasn't about to believe that I couldn't make things work, that I was some sort of failure if the marriage ended.
Thank GOD it ended. After I got over the initial hurt, which took QUITE some time I might add, my life turned around. I am now married to the most wonderful, loving man and I couldn't be happier. I learned SO much about myself from my divorce and it made me a better person and a better wife.
Don't feel like getting a divorce makes you a "quitter" or a "failure" or anything else. That is just pride talking. NO ONE ELSE SEES YOU AS A QUITTER OR A FAILURE. Repeat that MANY times. If anything, you are a stronger man for being able to walk away because it is NOT easy to do.
I wish you all the best.
"do partners of successful internet industry people lack reality on where the money is coming from?"
The issue is as old as currency and wealth enough to accumulate, thus it does not even need the internet. Before the internet, however, a man would usually have to work at least two jobs for other people outside the home to support this level of unreality in a person.
The pity such a situation brings has a very swift expiration date, after which it degrades to patheticness.
Please hire a good lawyer right away to explain to you the legal and financial details that your various options present. Then make a decision and stick to it with firmness and resolve. Best luck.
-Automan
Of course they do! It is 100%+ guaranteed "Magic"!
I read that into post #1, how to deal with it is worthy of hundreds of ideas and thousands of posts!
I'm gonna lower the tone of conversation now....and ask a simple question ;)
Do you love her? That is all that really matters, the rest is just a series of obsticles to overcome!
Money doesn't make good relationships....you have to share your heart.....having money is not a bad thing, not having money to some can be worse!
So either way the lesson is money isn't the basis for a relationship.
Good sex and a soulmate is IMHO a good starter, forget money ;)
Do you love her? That is all that really matters.
If that was all that matters I think attempt number four to leave would have happened by now and been successful. There's now a baby girl involved. No, I'm not saying that we should "stay together for the child" but I don't want to leave my daughter with her. Unless I have guarantees that the daughter will be coming with me I'm certainly not leaving her here with my wife on her own. I've seen what can happen to the daughter of a a selfish, self-absorbed mother.
Talking ... well, typing this out has really helped. I've made an appointment to see a solicitor today. Thanks everyone, especially those that took her side as a one sided argument would have been easy to ignore like a Jerry Springer show - "you should dump that zero and get with a hero" or words to that effect ...
I've seen what can happen to the daughter of a selfish, self-absorbed mother.
That's not always the case. You have made plenty of statements about the way your wife behaves that may influence your child. What passions do you have that can influence your child in a more positive way?
*Are you an environmentalist? Do projects with her to help save the environment.
*Are you a humanitarian? Sponsor a child in Africa who lost their parents to AIDS and have your daughter communicate with them. I sponsor one and they love receiving mail.
*Are you an animal lover? There are several organizations that you and your daughter can volunteer to help.
Teach by example. You will be surprised what kids pick up :)
Your wife is behaving in a totaly selfish manner. There are no longer any viable "soft options", you must now think of yourself first and forget trying to get help for her because it will just be like p*ssing in the wind.
In my opinion it's now gone too far; she is no longer an asset to your relationship and I would ditch her right now. Drop her like a hot brick, divorce her and take legal advice to minimise any settlement you may have to make.
I guess its easy to say these ideas but actualy doing them could prove hard.
Give all your money, business, etc etc to a trusted family member (your mum / dad) and tell your wife your broke, its all gone you have no money.
If she really loves you back, she will stay get a job work things out for the best.
If she doesn't love you then she will be off like a shot.
Just things to think about...
Well, saw the solicitor. Apparently not a chance in hell of me getting custody unless she voluntarily agrees to see a shrink and they diagnose her with a really serious mental condition.
You may want to consider seeing a different solicitor. In the the U.S. the courts tend often grant sole or at least joint custody to the dads. With one of the women I know who is a lot like your wife, the father from one of her previous marriages got sole custody of their child because could provide a more stable home life. (I think the mom's inability to keep a job and her record of debts weighed against her in court.) The mom only had limited visitation rights. Shortly after the child turned eighteeen, on her own she stopped all contact with her mother, and the mom has never seen or heard from her daughter since shortly after the end of the court imposed visits.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 2:12 pm (utc) on July 14, 2006]
"Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling."
In my opinion it's now gone too far; she is no longer an asset to your relationship and I would ditch her right now. Drop her like a hot brick, divorce her and take legal advice to minimise any settlement you may have to make.
Hell, she can have all the money we have (not much left mind you!) I can always make more.
He needs to think of the child, Its a hard one mate.
That's my dilemma. No kid = would have left finally several months ago.
Is it possible just to live with her for the sake of the child, pay the house, tax and all that and not give her ANY money?
That's what my solicitor recommended. Easier said than done because, as I said, when I don't give her the money she wants she makes my life hell so that I can't concentrate and work falls to shreds until I give in.
If she really loves you back, she will stay get a job work things out for the best.If she doesn't love you then she will be off like a shot.
Option 2 is the feeling I have and obviously she'd be taking the child with her and moving hundreds of miles away to live with her mother.
With one of the women I know who is a lot like your wife, the father from one of her previous marriages got sole custody of their child because could provide a more stable home life. (I think the mom's inability to keep a job and her record of debts weighed against her in court.)
She doesn't need a job if I'm paying the maintenance for the rest of the child's life. My earnings are quite high.
The word codependency comes to mind regarding your situation Internetheaven.
"Of or relating to a relationship in which one person is psychologically dependent in an unhealthy way on someone who is addicted to a drug or self-destructive behavior, such as chronic gambling."
Not sure I understand you. Do you mean that I have a desire or a "need" to have someone life-destroying in my life?
