Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Post Black Wednesday - Now what do we do?

Let's no longer fight about the Yahoo Google merge...

         

ckern

5:23 am on Oct 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Fact is Yahoo has choosen Google, and Yahoo is now running pure google results as their default listings. With that a side. Can we just use this thread to discuss what we do now?

Is there a chance for us? Or has Google made it clear that only the "Big Boys" will hold dominate rankings for there keywords?

We all know Google just reciently changed there algo before this big Google take over of Yahoo.

So what are people's suggestions. I know people are not fond of giving away there secrets I don't blame them. But, in general, where do we all go from here.

How do we optimize?

hazardtomyself

9:20 pm on Oct 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What do we do?

I am waiting:

1. To see what this G update brings. There is too much uproar to think that nothing will change with this G update.

2. To see if and when Y! incorporates other data into the G results.

I think it's too early to freak out and start developing way out Google strategies. I will keep developing good content rich pages, continue sticking to spider basics, and see where all this takes us. Let the dust settle.

ckern

9:23 pm on Oct 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yeah I guess all we can do is wait and see how things work when things settle down.

gsmitchell

10:08 pm on Oct 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



all I am going to do is wait and see what happens with G and Y then figure out how to optimize for G. You have no choice but to do whatever you can to acheive a top rank in G because of their dominance

Hunter

12:05 am on Oct 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Don't wait for anything. Keep working at it and make your site(s) a more valuable resource. This "Big Boys" talk is really getting out of hand.

Do you think that the "Big Boys" you refer to were not active on Yahoo when it was all about cat/title/des and PR? You were competing with them then...why are you so worried about competing with them now on Google?

The fact is (and you all know it) that you should have been competing with them all along on Google. The alarm has gone off. Now don't hit the snooze button and you'll be fine.

hazardtomyself

1:22 am on Oct 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Of course Google has been of major importance since they became a top search engine [nielsen-netratings.com] and obviously will continue to be of great importance. In regards to my KWs, it appears that only the giant sites are ranking well. For me, I believe this update will tell alot. As always...links, links, links...and keeping up the very important elements. I'm just saying I'm not sure it's the most prudent idea to begin some crazy new strategy until the settled dust reveals whatever it will reveal...and the dust does need to settle.

jacon4

12:07 pm on Oct 13, 2002 (gmt 0)



I for one am not going to play the google spam game. for commerical listings ( in my field) google is a spam engine. for my best KW, 6 of the top 10 sites are all the same site. better to spend my marketing money on PPCs and other areas than to throw it away on googles spam scam

Canton

3:07 pm on Oct 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'd agree - Google is full of much more spam than in the past...the more important they become in the search and SEO "worlds," the more spam they're going to take in.

Google's dominance may very well be it's downfall, from the perspective of search relevance...of course, they can just go to a PPC model and turn the whole SEO game into buying "media" in the form of top rankings...think about it...the only players left are Google and PPC engines (OK, LookSmart/MSN are a weird hybrid of PFI, PPC and forcing you to gain a top ranking).

2_much

9:14 pm on Oct 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



jacon4, you hit it square on the nail or whatever they say:

"better to spend my marketing money on PPCs "

I bet this was one of the primary purposes.

They probably make more money with Overture than they do with submissions. I think this is what they want to drive people to..it makes perfect sense:

1. Google places more emphasis on non-commercial content.
2. Yahoo uses Google's results that contain primarily non-commercial content
3. People go to overture to get traffic from Yahoo.

This is just a theory, I may be way off.

john316

9:21 pm on Oct 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It's interesting to see how the improved google algo is enriching overture, those guys must love the relevance of the latest index.

ca-ching!

chiyo

12:32 am on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



2much.. i think you have hit the nail right on the head.. Every detail of what you said...

The implication too.. is... that it will be very hard for people ranked high on Y! for commercial sites due to SEO (multiple keyword domains etc) to get ranked high on google. in google non-commercial queries are very relevant. Google however does not seem to be good at ranking commercial sites. (ive argued before that that is due to their PR/link popularity alogorthims which work well with information sites (who naturally link together) but not comemrcial sites (who cant/dont/force "artificial linkages")

PPC either in OV or Adwords is probably the fact of life for commercial websites who want reliable exposure.

No free ride in Search engines anymore for commercial sites unless you are very lucky for a limited time i think. That has been the inevitable end of the road now becoming more apparant and predictable for a few years already.

john316

12:54 am on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It usually is the end of the road for the search engine as well, I believe that solid consumer/commercial serps is what makes the engine popular to begin with.

Obviously there is a void to fill.

chiyo

1:13 am on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



john316..

nope not any more I'm afraid..

commercial sites main contribution to search engines is that they can pay the search engine to promote them. "Good solid commercial" SERPS could make a commercial directory popular, but not a mainstream one. The latter depends on providing good solid informational sites in their SERPS.

mainstream search engines realise to get regular surfers they have to provide relevant information that is low on commercial or advertising spins. If people get spins every time they click on a SERP, they will not go back any more.

Some people DO go to search engines to buy something, but not the majority. Search engines depend on eyeballs and they now know that clearly delineating between commercial sites and information sites will bring visitors back.

There is no way that search engines could continue providing dependable free listings for money making sites. Business wise, it just doesnt work.

Searchers KNOW, in Google for example, that the commercial links are on the side and they can click on those if they want to buy something.

When search engines get known for that they can sell PPC and sponsored links on the side. People who are searching for commercial info can find it there, in commercial type directories, or just simply branded sites like amazon, retailers themslves, etc etc.

And what void is there to fill?

Overture is a great site for finding places to spend money.

A search on google for a commercial query will return as many Adword and sponsored commercial sites as you want.

There are thousands of niche commercial and professional directory sites on the net, some of which do a great job in listing businesses and shops in a certain nice area.

cLuTcHFieND

3:25 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Which means that now we'll have to pay even more money to get traffic. Forget that. I've watsed enough of my money already.

Bottom line: Optimize for Google. IMO it's our only chance.

john316

3:31 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi Chiyo

Very good opinions, however I was basing my conclusions on the historical search engine rise/fall ratios.

Whether or not people want their consumer/commercial searches to actually include consumer/commercial related search results is probably open to debate.

Mike_Mackin

3:33 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>Bottom line: Optimize for Google. IMO it's our only chance.

< London > That may not be correct. < / London >

oilman

3:44 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>That may not be correct.

agreed. I was sitting in the hotel bar at PubCon talking to a very nice gentleman who would know about this and he just sat back with a small grin on his face and said "It's not done yet." :)

glengara

3:45 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Don't tease us, MM.........clarify!

Mike_Mackin

3:54 pm on Oct 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The true value of attending a PubCon or BarCon is to meet the players, gain their trust and get inside information. The trust I have been given does not allow me to explain further. Just don't put all eggs into Google.

KevinC

2:31 am on Oct 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



could inktomi be tossed in the mix?

powerstar

3:40 am on Oct 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yahoo already said they will add others beside Google. I think Inktomi will be in very soon. I think Yahoo finally realized the money is in the search results. The direcotry results will be pushed back up and they will add anybody that is willing to pay them to be listed (Inktomi, Fast, Altavista to name a few)

chiyo

6:17 am on Oct 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



yes that is a good guess Power.

My feeling is they will wait for a while for word of mouth to spread on how their search has improved for information searches, and then slowly and insidiously add PFI results, the same way they are slowly but steadily monetizing yahoo services like email etc, one day at a time, one "pay for premium" little service at a time.

Probably a good strategy...

cLuTcHFieND

3:23 pm on Oct 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If Inktomi comes in to the game, that could change the current situation drastically.

I retract my earlier statement. :P