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I was hoping by now I would see some change - but notta. I know with the new purchase of Inktomi that this may be a super bonus for the directory listings. But my sites have received about 70% less traffic since the yahoo switch. I could not afford to fork out $600 to yahoo - I'd rather pay to get into some of the other SEs at this point. My yahoo listing have done ZERO for my Google rankings.
I'm just hoping something changes soon. I really don't want to cancel my listings in yahoo. But they are leaving with no choice right now.
Anyone else canceling? If you want to get into your account to view all of your recurring site fees, you can simply go into the directory, and click any category. Then you click on submit site. To the left, they'll be a link that says something like "Manage Listings". Then you click on that and from there you can view all of your listing along with renewal dates. And if you choice to cancel, it's very simple, you just click on "How do I cancel?" in the top right hand side and it'll have a button to cancel. Just thought this would be usesful information.
First of all, my listings are $600 a piece since I work primarily with adult sites. Therefore, my investment isn't .80 per day, it's $1.64 PER SITE per day. The listings are NOT what they used to be, and the investment on most of my sites is not a good once since they changed their serps model. It's not the same, and I think it's fair to say that no one knows what is around the corner.
I don't plan on spending $30,000 for to "wait and see". You're missing the point. I have sites coming up for renewal RIGHT NOW, and I don't know what Yahoo's plans are for NEXT WEEK. Do you? Would you be willing to spend $30,000 for this kind of attitude and commitment to customer service? If so, then it is YOU who does not see the big picture.
Yahoo is unstable and unreliable from my point of view. I honestly don't know what they're going to do next, and unless they start coming forward with this information, I will not spend my money there anymore. Why should I? And why is it that you trust that your ROI is guaranteed for the remainder of this year when it is clear that we all know the serp change is just around the corner? This is going to mean a big change for your listings.
I'm not a gambler, and you don't know that your .80 a day is going to return anything for the entire year. Think about it. And don't accuse me of being irrational, because I'm not. It just doesn't make sound business sense to throw money into a black hole, which is what you're so eagerly suggesting to everyone. Think about it.
~Pink
Absolutely.
I stopped using L$ when they ripped everyone with their PPC, and I stopped using Yahoo when they removed their direcory from the front line.
These practices, with zero consultation with their customers, shows them to be untrustworthy. I'm not desperate enough to deal with those I don't trust - I don't need it.
When I invest money, I do so on the basis that I will get something in return. Spending it on either of these two doesn't guarantee ANY return at all. Experience shows that they could do anything at all tomorrow... if I wanted to gamble like that I'd throw my cash onto a roulette table.
It's everyone's own choice of course. If some people want to throw .80 per day on the table 365 days IN ADVANCE, knowing that it may become $299 per day tomorrow if they chop their model again, that's their choice. I certainly won't be joining them though.
Please feel free to post any directories who guarantee you an amount of traffic for a fixed amount of money for a fixed amount of time. It seems to me that you should focus on PPC as PFI doesn't suit your needs.
STEVEB - Umm, I think I missed it - How much did you say you were spending with Yahoo submissions?
And as to the comment about the quality of sites - Obviously the sites had excellent quality and content to have been accepted and approved by a Yahoo Paid Submission Editor in the first place. The editors do not accept crappy sites into it's paid directory and they have no problem declining your site whether you paid or not. Unlike some of the Crap that is now showing up as a result of the Google switch - some of that mess would have never got accepted. NEVER!
Business relationships should be forged on trust. It should be possible to make assumptions that common understandings will hold, without fearing a knife in the back. The relationship should be valued by both parties - the customer and the provider. Morals, ethics, and so on are central to good business practice.
Part of that is surely that if you sign up as a customer for something that has been delivered long term, it will not be deliberately reversed tomorrow. It should not be necessary to get the lawyers onto the small print for every purchase made. If that is necessary one must question the value of the relationship in the first place.
Only crooks and conmen hide behind small print. Honest businesses value relationships and customers and are open about their intentions. They don't accept money on one understanding, and then swap the deliverable as soon as they have it.
That sort of approach, using the protection of small print, is the business of the gutter. I certainly want no part of it, which is why I walk away when a business has shown it is capable of it.
Once bitten, twice shy.
I really do think you are missing the point.
"It's about money. Base your decisions on that"
"but the posts that say "70% less spend money elsewhere" are obviously missing the point by a country mile. Who cares about "less"? That's irrelevant."
Less is irrelevant. Are you new to business or just profitable business?
I’m not interested in a 1 to 1 return on our investment (over a year period of time). Not even a
1 to 1.1 or
1 to 1.2 or
1 to 1.3 or
any other minor incremental changes.
The point is not: if you make any profit you should renew.
The point is: how much profit can I make on my investment - ROI - it is a very basic business concept.
I chose not to renew $1800. worth of renewals today. Why? Because at current numbers that will return a net of $2200 = profit of $400 (if nothing changes). Simply: not enough return on investment to be worthwhile.
And in additon, that is assuming that they are not going to find a NEW way tomorrow to make your return on the $1800 even less... and possibly turning it into a loss.
If you invest $1800 today and they scrap the directory tomorrow for example, SteveB's "buck and a half a day" becomes "$1800" for one day.
Of course they might do it...it's in the small print... they can do whatever they want. As they proved with their last stunt.
Investing up front with Yahoo or Looksmart is a gamble - nothing more nothing less.
If you only have X amount of money, there may be better ways to spend it. That's not what we are talking about.
So much for the "drastic drop in revenue" that the change-over to Google was predicted to cause.
Jadakiss, Pink_V (does that stand for what I think?), Steveb and Napoleon:
You really seem to be arguing about different points. Steveb is arguing from a hypothetical position and Jadakiss and Pink_V have figures in their heads. Both arguments are right.
If you have no relationship with Yahoo or an ambivalent one (like me), you may or may not renew your listings. It's simply a question of "will I get a profit?". Of course I also need to consider that the whole directory may be dropped when I make my estimation. It's a simple risk vs. reward. I personally only need one customer a year to justify my listing, so I will probably keep it.
If you have an acrimonious relationship with Yahoo, you will be focusing more on strategy and whether you can trust Yahoo with your money. This is also a valid consideration. Is Yahoo a partner you want to deal with? Is it worth your time managing the risk? Could your time be spent better on ppc? If you have fixed costs, this is a real consideration.
Well, have fun with the head butting guys. I'm going back to Google News.
LOL, uh, no.
I'm the arguing from the hard facts. This is an easy problem if you look at it from that perspective. When you start thinking "well Yahoo may diddle me over somehow after I renew" then you are getting hypothetical and can't answer the question.
Look at your numbers. If those numbers merit the expense, renew. If not, don't. Sure Yahoo could do something to make your investment worse, or better, but that's an impossible do-nothing concept. Some folks want guarantees from yahoo. There aren't any. They also aren't offering blenders with renewal. If you need a blender to be included, don't renew.
There aren't but there should be. Napoleon is right. I give guarantees to my customers. Would you buy a hi-fi from Toshiba without any guarantee? Of course not. It's no way to do top tier business.
On the renewal theme, you have an interesting philosophy. If I understand you, hypothetical possibilities should not be taken into account whilst making business decisions if they are difficulat to quanify? Therefore I should ignore them, even if a negative outcome is likely?
Gut feeling is a big part of successful business, and IMHO is an important factor in the Yahoo case.
Damn right there should. The guarantee that your business partner won't grab your cash and do a runner is one we should be able to take for granted. Yet both Looksmart and Yahoo have proved that we can't.
They put something in the shop window and then swap it around when we have paid at the till. Not the behaviour I want from my partners.
Give them your money and you are you are taking a gamble. You can't possibly calculate ROI properly when you can't have confidence that the same model will apply throughout your term of investment.
My money will go elsewhere.
That you will get a review.
Partly because the traffic we have been getting from there has been dropping steadily over the past year or so, but mainly because they are still listing dozens of competing sites for free.
We are not going to subsidize our competitors listings.
As I said originally, if the small print becomes important in a business relationship, then the relationship itelf is not worthwhile. QED.
I haven't seen a definitive answer if non-commercial sites are being charged the renewal fee. Here's some text from Search Engine Watch from last year that leads me to believe they won't be charged.
When I look at my Yahoo listing, it says that I will be charged for renewal in April. Can anyone confirm or deny?
FROM SEARCH ENGINE WATCH - JAN 2002
"The Yahoo Express box has the same price wording as you'll see when submitting into a commercial area: "US$299.00 non-refundable, recurring annual fee."
I asked Yahoo last Friday is this was indeed correct -- that non-commercial sites were also being forced to pay an annual fee. That would be a pretty tough on them.
After all, it's one thing for a hobbyist web site or a non-profit group to find enough money to pay for a one-time review fee. It's a harder matter for them to keep coming up with the money each year. Moreover, it's extremely worrisome to think that content in the non-commercial areas might get dropped, because someone made the "mistake" of using the Yahoo Express program to speed up the initial review.
Fortunately, the answer came back that nothing has changed for submitting to a non-commercial category. Despite the price wording, it still remains only a one-time fee to be paid.
In fact, Yahoo has now altered its terms to specifically note in section 2.4 that annual fees are only charged against sites in the "commercial Directory." Previously, the terms simply said "directory."
If you don't think that the "small print" is important, then you are fooling yourself. Of course the small print is important. If it wasn't, they wouldn't put it there. That is why they ask you if you agree please check here to continue.
I agree that Yahoo at the very least should have given us a heads up on what was going to happen (30 days before switching)but again its their right to do what's best.
Would it be fair for Yellow pages to take your money for an ad and then decide not to print or distribute the directory? That's basically what Yahoo did.
I'd want more than 30 days notice from Yellow pages if they were going to pull out.
