CIW Certification

Is this certification a joke or not?

[dhdweb]

Does the CIW (Certified Internet Webmaster) certification carry any weight at all in the industry?

How about the CompTIA i-Net+ ?

Is either one worth getting?

[Lisa]

I just took a look at the program because of your post. I was surprised to learn that several hundred university offer this certification. I had never heard of it before this. But it looks like it is an equivalent of a university minor in being a Webmaster. I don’t think I would hire someone based strictly on having a CIW. I would ask to see work they have done and interview them to see that they knew what they were doing. I would base 70% of my hiring decision on just how well they did on the interview.

[richlowe]

Hi, I do a lot and have done a lot of hiring in my career. I would give more weight to a CIW than many other forms of certification. The cert is not extraordinarily difficult, but it does indicate good knowledge of the area. There are several levels or types of CIW by the way.

It would not be the deciding factor by any means, but someone with a CIW would most likely get past the first glance (where 90% of resumes get tossed) and it would help if other things were equal. Of course, experience is still king.

Richard Lowe

[JayC]

On the other hand, I also have done and continue to do a lot of hiring. While I wouldn't go as far as saying a CIW cert would count against you, it would make me examine your experience a little more skeptically. The CIW reputation is a little shaky, and someone with good experience doesn't need it. If I see it on a resume, I'll wonder why that person felt they had to spend a lot of money to get a certification before they'd be on a par with other people in the job market.

I guess it'd depend somewhat on the position, but to me CIW=inexperienced newbie. For some positions that wouldn't matter, though. The point is, I've never seen a resume from a well-experienced web professional that had a CIW.

[richlowe]

I've never seen a resume from a well-experienced web professional that had a CIW.

My experience is almost exactly the opposite. I have found that someone who has a CIW knows his or her stuff. And someone who does not have the certification may or may not.

The reason why I look for this and other certifications is that it helps me understand a person's knowledge. I am usually looking for a person with broad-based experience and thus want to see several certifications. I might look for an MCSE, CIW, A+, Network+ and Inet+ certification on some individuals. I would want to see these over several years.

You see, I am looking for people who want to keep their knowledge up-to-date and are willing to keep training over a period of years or decades. A single certification is one thing, but a series of certifications up-to-date and over years is another.

I don't want people who can code ASP well or install Windows 2000 or even create a web site. I want people who can think, who understand the business, their relationship to the rest of the world, their career path and so forth. I am looking for long-range instead of short-range, and I've found that people without certifications (unless they are very, very experienced or keep training in other ways such as on-line courses, colleges and books) tend to be very knowledgable about one or two things, but their understanding is shallow.

I've hired several hundred people, and so far those with certifications as I described win hands down.

Richard Lowe

[JayC]

I am usually looking for a person with broad-based experience and thus want to see several certifications. I might look for an MCSE, CIW, A+, Network+ and Inet+ certification on some individuals. I would want to see these over several years.

Yep, that'd be impressive. And it'd be a completely different situation than what I was commenting on -- a person with little real-world experience, but with a CIW cert.

[richlowe]

JayC, I understand and tend to agree. Without experience a CIW is not worth a lot. College would be preferable.

RIchard Lowe

[dhdweb]

Well, the reason I brought this subject up is that I went through the basic CIW training which included: Foundations, Design and E-comm.

I personaly found the training to be a big joke, I have learned more on my own than I did from the class, for this reason I have not shelled out the cash to take the tests. I felt that I would be throwing good money after bad, In fact I wish I had not even spent the cash for the class. Tho I did pick up a few networking tips.

So as I thought, experience is still king!

This brings up the age old question: How does one gain experience if nobody will hire you without it? ........ lol

The few times I have needed to contract work out, I have looked at thier experience over everything else.

I view certifications like a drivers license, just because you have one does not mean you are a good driver! :-)

Thanks for your input,
dhdweb

[richlowe]

The CIW certification is NOT a joke. It's industry accepted and very useful. However, if you went into them with the concept that "you already know it all" or "it's a big joke" or some other similar things, then you are correct - you won't get anything from the classes.

I took the CIW security class and found it very useful. Yes, I already knew a lot of the data but there was enough new material to still be useful. A refresher can be good as well, and it was nice to sharpen my skills - even though I am an advanced security expert.

My advice as a manager with 25 years of experience (and several previous VP positions) is to take the tests. If you've already paid for the classes a few bucks more to get additional benefits would be the rational choice.

Managers do hire entry level people, however, entry level people get entry level salaries and positions.

Some tips:

1) Create your own web site and show off your talents in it's creation. If you are looking for a webmaster type job, creating one or more web sites is a great way to prove you are good.

2) Become a consultant.

3) Do volunteer work to build up your resume. Find someone who needs a site built and do it in return for a letter of reference

4) Work in a school computer lab

5) Sign up at a school which offers internship programs. This allows you (as part of a course) to do a project for a company. The company donates some money to the school for the use of you and some other students on the project. My company has used this several times with great success.

6) Network at industry conventions.

7) Write articles, letters to the editors and frequent newsgroups - and participate.

The point is "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Yes, people will give you a chance now and then, but you've got to show them how you can help them out.

The wrong approach is "I need a job". The right approach is "I can help you with this and this and this". As a manager, I want to know how you are going to help me and my company. I have little to no interest in helping you. It sounds harsh, but I don't care that a person needs a job - millions of people need jobs. I care that a person can solve one or more problems. That's the tip that will get you hired.

Richard Lowe

[txbakers]

I started to play with ASP.NET on my own. Downloaded the framework, worked a few tutorials, bought a book, and became a little fluent in it.

I saw that our local community college was offering a course in ASP.NET and I figured it would be a good way to work with an expert.

I dropped the course after one night, since I already knew more than the instructor, who couldn't even spell ASP.NET let alone teach it. I don't put much stock in certifications, although they do look nice on a resume. It shows that you accomplished a pre-defined course of study. It doesn't show you know how to use it, just that you completed the requirements.

[richlowe]

I dropped the course after one night

A poor instructor is indeed a horrible thing. A good instructor is rare. An excellent instructor can make a whole subject come alive.

Richard Lowe

[dhdweb]

First, I myself am not looking for a job, I have my own design firm.

Second, maybe I will take the tests, after all I did take the class.

Third, the instructor does make a differance, perhaps I did not have the best instructor hence my feeling that it was a joke. I think the institution providing the class also plays a big part. I made a bad choice there aswell.

I do agree with the points you made on getting your foot in the door, very good advice for anyone looking to get hired!

if you went into them with the concept that "you already know it all" or "it's a big joke" or some other similar things, then you are correct - you won't get anything from the classes.

This was not my case, I went in wanting to learn more! But was very dissapointed in what I did NOT get out of it!

[richlowe]

But was very dissapointed in what I did NOT get out of it!

I totally understand. I've had bad instructors and even bad schools which "ruined" a course or two myself. My point was not to write off an entire certification series just because of one or two experiences. Perhaps the certification is good but you did not receive the value you wanted?

Richard Lowe

[rogerd]

In my experience, quality of courses are often not a good guide to the value of a certification. The rigor of the testing and the degree to which employers recognize the certification are the real value tests, IMO.

One other empirical finding: the best technical people tend to have no problem doing certification tests through self study. The people who rely on classes, by and large, are career changers and individuals who don't eat, sleep, and breathe the topics. My comments are mostly based on network certifications like MCSE, CNE, etc. Real network people trying to learn new technology tend to cobble together networks in their house using discarded PCs and junk parts. They might invest in a book or two...

That's not to say a technical pro under the gun to pass a test (particularly in a brand new technology) might not take a class if his employer paid for it, just that most don't bother.

[nickc001]

I work for an IT training company and we were looking into the CIW qualification so I decided to give it a go. I am now CIW Master designer (CIW foundations, site designer and e-commerce designer) and studied for it from self-study books.

I would not have been able to pass it without my past experience as a webmaster /developer.

What it did do was introduce me to new technologies that I probably wouldn't have touched on as I normally develop 99% of my stuff in ASP.

I don't know these new technologies in depth but I feel I have a greater all round awareness when it comes to planning sites and now I feel I can choose from a larger number of options and narrow down my aims more.

I think the qualification would be a slight incentive to an employer if I moved jobs.

We decided to add the CIW qualification to our course - however there are no real competitors to it for web development although the new Microsoft MCAD certification that will be released in September looks like a winner if you use Microsoft Products. It is their first real decent qualification certification for web developers.

[fintan]

I started of doing web design 2-3 years ago. First with a course in college which gave me a NCVA cert which is not worth much but it gave me time to learn and study on my own. Then I went on to complete a CIW and I became Certified Internet Webmaster. I have to say that it was a good learning experience but once I finished and tried my luck in the big bad world.

I didn't recieve the responce I expected.
We were told that the CIW cert was reconised but every where I went. The web designer community never heard of it. It is a good qualification to someone who is starting out like me but for the experienced developer I dont think it would be worth much.

fin.

[Joellyn]

I'm currently studying for the CIW Foundations test and I believe getting the certification (eventually a Master CIW) will be worth it for me. I used to think that certifications were just $125 pieces of paper that said you knew how to study enough to pass a test - but might not remember a thing the next day. Now I think of it as another level of professional development and continued learning.

I agree with everyone else - a certification certainly doesn't replace experience or portfolio pieces. But I would certainly think it would augment the two and from an employment perspective possibly place me ahead of another applicant with similar experience and abilities. I say if the opportunity presents itself, go for it :) (Especially if your employer covers part of the exam fees!)

Joellyn