5-25 MSN Search Update

[newwebster]

I am seeing major movement in the serps. Nothing looks pretty at all. The authoriy knob just got turned off completely. I am seeing a new load of spam and overall lack of relevency.

[bwnbwn]

I believe this update is to bring most of the spam to the top to see it. I too see all the spam but it is intentional for the purpose of testing as they turn filters on to see what it removes and what it doesn't. Best way I see to test a filter as it is impossible to replicate all the different ways to spam why not use the spam sites as a tool to see the different effects of each filter. I have full confidance you will see the serps return with less spam present... I went from page 1 to 4 on a single key word that is targeted by spam. Most of the other searches 2 3 words are ok due to the absense of spam.

[steveb]

"Umm lamest seo tactics? Well a true game player would see that there is some validity in having a URL name that is related to your subject matter."

But that's NOT what is going on. What is valued is keyword in subdomain. In other words,
junk-stuff.example1.com will have an ENORMOUS edge over
example2.com/junk-stuff/

That is just foolish search engineering. Even if you give a SMALL scoring edge to the subdomain (which you shouldn't) that would be one thing, but folder level words seem to be valued at about 1/20th of sub-domain words.

[TypicalSurfer]

MSN looks good to me.

this thread is sounding more like a spam reporting thing.

If you don't rank well at MSN, you need to learn how and quit whining.

[stinkfoot]

Thanks for the clarity Steveb ... I must admit I have seen this subdomain thing somewhere else .. cant think where though.

[Tourz]

maybe the SERPS are better today than yesterday - I didn't keep snapshots..

After a nice email from MSNdude assuring that Adcenter team wasn't connected to the Relevance team, I went over a bunch of our SERPS and it isn't nearly as bad as I thought I saw yesterday.

however for one important key phrase we have been dropped and replaced by someone's cancellation policy page, the next result being a MFA site.

a work in progress I assume. The world is always in a state of flux.

[econman]

Interesting thought -- turning off filters to see what spam rises to the top. But, would MSN really do this intentionally, in full view of the public? You would think they would have an internal testing environment where they can experiment without revealing their problems to the world.

But, then again, MS built a multi-billion dollar empire by releasing buggy software, then waiting for millions of users to find all the errors....

I hope the mods allow the specific keyword mentioned above to remain in the thread. It really opened my eyes to what people are complaining about.

With a hugely important keyword like this, it is almost inconceivable that MSN would let this sort of problem surface in public.

Without specific examples, all the chatter about "horrible spammy results" just sounded like sour grapes, since I wasn't seeing anything as vivid as that example in my own sector, although I see some evidence that sites may be getting an increased boost from having the keyword used as a subdomain or otherwise strategically placed within the URL.

[steveb]

"If you don't rank well at MSN, you need to learn how and quit whining."

You wander into the wrong thread or something? Nobody cares how you rank. The thread is discussing the quality of the results. A chicken with a lobotomy can rank in MSN so that isn't the issue.

[crobb305]

MSN looks good to me.
this thread is sounding more like a spam reporting thing.

If you don't rank well at MSN, you need to learn how and quit whining.

You must run a spam site, or by luck/good fortune you are ranking well; it may not last. But that is beside the point. The point of this thread is to help MSN see some of the problems with the serp quality, subdomain spam, etc. They can't improve the algorithm without feedback.

[iThink]

38 of the first 50 results for a keyword that we compete for are all blogspot blogs with no more than 4 lines of junk text. Looks like free blogspot blogs with junk text are the ultimate symbol of quality as per MSFT engineers.

[TypicalSurfer]

The point of this thread is to help MSN see some of the problems with the serp quality, subdomain spam, etc. They can't improve the algorithm without feedback.

lol

rename the thread > MSN QC

[crobb305]

rename the thread > MSN QC

Is that all you are concerned with? The name of the thread and it's purpose? Why bother reading, or even checking in to see what we say if you don't care? As you gain experience posting in this forum and others, you will learn how to contribute; otherwise, best leave the topic for the rest of us who care, have problems with the serps, have feedback, and possible solutions.

Like Steveb said, no one cares about your current rankings. You can polish your badge, but we simply don't care.

[crobb305]

I am seeing different results on live.com than on msn.com. Has this always been the case? I thought they used the same index.

[egurr]

We do research on search engines and we've noticed something going on as well. It appears they have come up with a way to push down some of the directories, in the process some blogs and other sites may be bouncing up.
But the SERPS are bouncing wildly. As luck would have it we did a stability measurement on May 24th. In one category alone almost the entire SERPS have changed.

[TypicalSurfer]

best leave the topic for the rest of us who care, have problems with the serps

Yeah crobb305, I read back and see where you took a hit in rankings. Sorry to hear about that.

What I know about any large index updating across servers and server farms is it is best to give things some time to settle. They probably still have a few knobs to play with. ;)

[tictoc]

I am seeing slightly different results in the Live.com version as well. Live was introduced to the be the "next" msn search but it still has not found a way to out the sub-domain junk sites.

[SEOPTI]

May I comment steveb:

"MSN seems to want an internet where every page is on its own subdomain. "

:)

[msndude]

I guess we're overdue for a public comment

1) Live.com is supposed to be the same as search.msn.com, msn.com, or any other MSN Search URL. The differences are in the UI, not the AI. :-)

2) We did indeed roll out a new Net this week. Unfortunately, an unrealted event earlier in the week allowed about 100M pages into the index without filtering. A great number of these pages were very poor.

3) These two events took effect at the same time, and event #2 was about 2x as large as event #1.

4) We did not fully unravel this ourselves until about two hours ago.

The system should finish purging and recrawling the 100M suspect pages by Sunday morning, PST. At that point it should be possible to see what the new net REALLY looks like.

We'd like to thank all the people who cared enough to tell us what they really thought -- no matter how negative it was. We have thick skins here and we genuinely appreciate the feedback.

Many of the issues raised here are being addressed. Some of them turn out to be harder to do than they might seem to be, but even so, we're optimistic that you'll be able to see substantial progress across the summer. We don't want to promise anything specific, but we'll try to be better about commenting on things that you do discover as we roll them out.

Thanks again, and sorry about the spam blip.

[newwebster]

Not sure yet, but I think I am seeing a rollback or fix in some serps. It is going in and out when I refresh.

[steveb]

"At that point it should be possible to see what the new net REALLY looks like."

It would be nice if that was a really pretty thing.

Hoping for the best... (and Charlie Brown lines up to kick the football one more time...)

Thanks for the info msndude.

[newbieatseo]

I am seeing a rollback or a change in the current update now. At any rate, it looks a bit better now than it did earlier today.

[wariental]

MSNDude can you please let us know what some of the major changes are.

I would not ask if I wasn't seeing extremely different results than prior to this update.

[msndude]

Give it until Sunday to settle down -- maybe Monday to be safe. Don't waste yout time analyzing it before then; it's in flux.

Steve: Don't expect to see everything fixed by any single update. From here on, this is like climbing a mountain; progress is by slow, measured steps. Also, bear in mind that there are steps you cannot see -- infrastructure improvements that are vital for progress yet invisible to the public. Finally, there's no progress without risk; there will be slipups despite all efforts to prevent them.

That said, we're very optimistic here, we expect good progress over the summer, and we'll have more specific comments with each successive step. Thanks for sticking with us.

[wariental]

MSNdude what exactly is happening?

Can you give any specific information as to what in the search engine you are improving/changing?

[steveb]

"progress is by slow, measured steps."

Now that is the best thing to come out of MSN so far. The thing lacking from MSN to date is the appearance of any incremental steps, and in fact, the lack of major screw ups. A screw up at least shows signs of effort.

If MSN incrementally figures out niche authority, stops relying heavily on simplistic stuff like subdomain name, and abandons nonsensical policies like geotargeting "neptune" or "Aristotle" searches they could become a great engine and the market leader.

Oh, and they also need to stop listing one of my domains without the www since the non-www URL has not been accessible since before they even had a search engine. (I still don't get that one....)

[sahuman]

The search results are relevant. Do a search for "MSN Search Sucks" and you'll be convinced.

[texasville]

>>>That said, we're very optimistic here<<<
As am I msndude. As I said before, the results that msn search produces in sectors that represent true websites for brick and mortar commercial businesses have been the best on the net. I almost NEVER see flotsam and jetsam floating in them.
Unfortunately I have slipped a bit in this update but that is okay. Just need to do a little more work on the content.
But, if ya'll could stretch the serps to reflect in all categories to be as clean as in my sector ya'll will beat G and Y! hands down.
Now when is Webmaster World going to give MSN the respect it deserves and give it..it's own forum.
Come on. It should be a level playing field. Perception is everything.

[Thinkprog]

search.arabia.msn.com is still showing the old results.

I think the results on search.arabia.msn.com are by far better than the new ones. These results are a much better basis to finetune them, than the new ones!

[sandyeggo]

MSNDude, thanks for keeping us updated, i appreciate your posts and thick skin.
However :-)
i just have to say that the way MSN delivers me search results just drives me nuts - and away to google. It has been over the last year on MSN that keyword loaded domain names were ALWAYS ranked at the top, even though they have minimal content, or spam tactics, or even if they were set up as a directory page. It doesn't matter as long as you have the keyword in the domain name. This is absolutely rediculous. If i want that i can just type keywords into the url myself.
So - Please address this in an update so we can get better results.
Thanks

[BillyS]

Good new, thanks for the update MSNDude

[Blade3]

I used to get home page ranked in MSN search results for all the three important keywords.

Now, what I observed is inner pages are ranking for respective keyowrds rather than the home page. I am happy with the current results for my site.

Any similar observations?