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All of sudden I lost all my ranking. My website was number 1 with a lot many keywords. We still have very good ranking in Google and yahoo. Our website is authority site in the industry. Many of MFA websites and affiliate websites got rankings from the text they copied from us. Anyone else noticing the same thing?
Lowered KW density to rock bottom for Aug 3rd spam shake up and got all pages back to normal. Now losing pages in the last 24 hours.
Haven't a clue as to why...
Hopefully the Cached Page count is just wrong as suggested in the above netmeg posting.
MSNDude needs to comment on this.
We're all trying to play by the rules, but taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back is frustrating.
[edited by: tedster at 5:22 pm (utc) on Oct. 6, 2006]
[edit reason] fix formatting issue [/edit]
All the people here saying that their rankings have drastically dropped in MSN recently.
I'm not writing this to indicate many of you haven't been unfairly hit by this. I think a lot of innocent sites get caught in these filters. But this might add a piece of information toward solving the puzzle.
My site is actually doing a little better with this update. It was pretty good anyway but results on various search phrases seem to have jumped above some of the results on some commercial sites. Mine is a history/hobby site that only earns through adsense and amazon.
It seems like no matter how I write an article or contents page the "hobby" word comes out pretty dense. So that hasn't been a problem for me anyway.
Are we sure density is one of the problems or some other more subtle things that are hurting some sites?
Whats going on with MSN. MSN is getting worse.
If your pages can be reached both ways, people in the google search news forums have suggested consolidating these listings. You can redirect one version to the other using a a 301 redirect.
I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
A firm of widgetmakers ranks top five for keywords that are absolutely nothing to do with what their site is about simply because they have client pages that contain the keyword and internal links to those pages - thats how bad now live has become!
Meanwhile authority sites that are dediated to the subject matter dont rank, probably because they have to many pages about the subject matter, perhaps to higher density on the pages and foolishly the webmaster has perhaps even (gawd help them) set pages out that say what they are, is using heading title tags and metta descriptions and may have even W3 validated the pages correctly!- Not what msn want!
I think "less is more" has gone far to far now - the serps are boarding on anoying now - its such a waste of what could be a great alternative.
Mind you, msn will pay for it ultimately because whilst they continue to churn out this garbage i for one wont be buying PPC from them or advising my clients to. No one will change to them at this rate.
Msn are still playing at this - results remain absolutely dire in the UK due to this filtering which imo they should scrap and start again.
It's very strange as I haven't done much with the site - just added content really.
However after spending some time researching, I've noticed that over the last 6 months or so there have been a large number of 'dubious' links to the site (from very poor quality sites).
Virtually no outbound links have been added by me - so I have no doubts this is to do with spammy inbound links (not kw density).
This potentially means that if someone can implement enough bad links to your site, they can effectively take you out of MSN - something I'm sure MSN must be trying to rectify.
I can only assume jkfjkf is talking about scraper sites providing links to many (mine included) sites, and those domains / subdomains are shady, but unfortunately webmasters can't control it if they are being scraped.
What people on here are speculating (on this thread and others on the msn forum) is that perhaps msn might be penalising for bad links to your site, instead of just ignoring them or devaluing the link itself.
It's just very frustrating to think you are being penalised because of a reasonable keyword density, bad links etc, when the serps show there is still a lot of spam around and many websites that used to rank well pre summer have been caught up in what seems to be collateral damage.
The thing is the more content your site has the more of it that gets taken by these scraper sites hence the spam inbounds you get and the more likely that msn wont index a large sites content as a result.
Meanwhile a thin site of a few pages or a very new site is unlikely to have been hit by these kind of sites and excapes having these kind of links and ranks well in msn.
Interesting concept, you could well be onto something here.
On another note, anyone know if any progress has been made at msn during the last three month regarding improving the search serps? Its been a while since they did an update i think? They still look as poor as ever on checking again today.
I just find it hard to believe that pre summer one of my sites was #2 for my chosen keyword and now i'm buried in page 6 behind affiliate links (yes, links, not pages) and widgetwidgetwidget type domains.
Thats what i see, problem is that msn team dont see it currently but they will in time. Ive maintained on this thread that the technology cant deep crawl and index a site from what ive seen and as such they cant get the data in to produce even half respectable serps.
Hence, good authority sites with plenty of content either dont show or rank well behind the junk. Ive not seen a site that has had all of its pages crawled yet either unless its a blog or of thin content - You need to be blind not to see these problems.
The recent thought over spam links from scraper sites adds to the problem because imo i think there may well be something in that also.
At some point in the future Bill will turn round and say "what have that search team been doing the last few years?, we havent increased our market share and very few are changing to us from google - who can we sack and who can we buy?"
Until then i dont see any hope in the short term without them having a MAJOR rethink and ditching the current algo - it doesnt work
I can clearly see hundreds of scrapers with my content (or snippets of it) ranking for terms that only appear on my site. They generously link back, some with 302s, some with rel=nofollow. I wonder if it has anything to do with the penalty. Thanks God my sites are still doing well in other SEs.
Msndude, do penalties ever expire? If webspam at microsoft.com never replied to my "re-inclusion request" email what does it mean?
If the only way out of it is to start over on a new domain what is the proper way of avoiding a duplicate content penalty.
Is disallowing msnbot on the old domain sufficient?
Thank you in advance.
Have you lots of original content?
Have you got lots of inbound links?
Is your site over 1000 pages?
Is your site an authority in its sector?
Are scraper sites using some of your content?
If you have answered yes to any or all of these, then what do you expect? - your site is destined to be filtered out of the msn serps.
Best policy if you want some trafic from msn and rank at the top of the pile is to knock yourself a blog together, or a 5-10 page thin content site that points to your main site (best to do this in as fast a time as possible, after about five pints of beer is good, the last thing you want here is a quality resource "remember less is more".
Next, whatever you do dont put to many links on a page to related content or go into any detail about the keywords - kiss of death
Next, make sure the domain name includes the prime keywords in it keyword-today-keyword.com is good and cant fail - no matter what you do. This is vital to ranking well in msn
Then get some backlinks to it from any old site doesnt matter, a load of blogg sites, some paid for links anything.
Give it about five days and your junk site will be king of the serps with all of the other junk next to it.
In the future when the msn search team decide they truely want to offer some quailty serps and ditch the current algo then your junk site may vanish but your quality authority site may come back into the msn serps and start ranking where it should be - we can all live in hope!
At least we are being active in critisizing what seems to be a rather bad algorithm. The thing is I used to really like MSN. It seemed to give hope for new sites as well as keeping the good older ones that had a decent quality and played by "the rules". But now what is ranking is totally ridiculous.
You forgot to mention to not make the pages relevant about the keywords you want to rank them for.
Also spammy subdomains seem to work well.
Maybe in the future it will all get sorted. Should we hold our breath?