Why not Linux?

What would convince you to try Desktop Linux

[mack]

I have been a Linux user for in excess of a decade. I can honestly say the last time I even used a Windows machine was around about 5 years ago. I use Linux for all my work and day to day computing tasks.

What factors are at play that prevents more people from experimenting with Linux? Does it sound too techy and complicated? is there perhaps a large learning curve? Or does it come down to software requirements and perhaps old habits?

What would make you personally want to try a Linux distribution and have you perhaps tried before? Did you go back to another operating system and if so what drove that descicion?

Mack.

[lammert]

Simple: applications. The tools I need for my work are available on Windows only.

[mack]

lammert that does seem to be a very valid reason. If your tool chain is Windows only then there is no sayne reason to move away.

Mack.

[lammert]

The main problem which prevents the big switch is in company environments IMHO. 90% of the functionality in most companies can be easily transferred to Linux. Office and internet browsing applications all have equivalent Linux cousins. But the last 10% of the applications is which prevents most companies I know to make the switch. Bookkeeping software is a major problem, but there are often also many smaller programs that do not have a Linux equivalent.

My clients use for example Windows software to read out the tachographs of their trucks, store temperature measurements from handheld temperature probes, set the print format of their label printers and do many other small tasks with equipment for which the manufacturers didn't provide Linux software.

If management has to decide between one single platform based on Windows, or a platform mainly on Linux but still many individual computers with proprietary software for specific tasks, the choice is in most cases simple.

And because companies are mainly on Windows, their employees are used to it and will use it at home also. That leaves Linux for the geeks, the unemployed and the adventurers :)

[engine]

I'm stuck in that lock down, too.

I tried it quite a few years back but the version i had seemed unstable, and I mean, really unstable.

I found an old laptop a few weeks ago and was going to try again, but the laptop has subsequenly died.

[graeme_p]

@engine One thing Linux should not be is unstable - it only really happens if you have the wrong hardware, or a version that is too experimental/cutting edge. What were you using?

@lammert has a good point, but then 1), what about about those companies that adopt multiple OSes anyway (most people on Windows, designers or similar using Macs, servers on Linux....) and 2) those that are not dependent on Windows only apps.

I think the biggest barrier is fear of using anything different. Of course Windows users are forced to when new versions come out. That also explains why Linux is so successful on corporate servers, which is not held back by end user fear, but not on corporate desktops.

[engine]

@graeme_p

One thing Linux should not be is unstable - it only really happens if you have the wrong hardware, or a version that is too experimental/cutting edge. What were you using?

It was quite a while back and i can't remember exactly. There were two versions I tried on a windows desktop, booting from a DVD. One was not stable. The other was quite different from a windows interface and required a steep learning curve. i didn't have time to pursue it.

It could be that's the problem, it's too different.

[graeme_p]

@engine, yes being too different is a problem, but it depends on particular distribution. Too much choice is a problem and people who tell new users to use something like Arch Linux do not help.

There are a number of distributions designed to either look like Windows or be easy to learn and those would have made a better starting point.

The easiest thing to do is buy hardware with Linux pre-installed. You avoid driver issues and do not need to install.

If you ever feel inclined to try again, I am happy to make suggestions.

[dstiles]

One possible reason my brother (a linux user with XP for special software) came across: A friend of his has long been using linux, even though he is only marginally computerate. He usually refers problems to my brother. On a few occassions he has asked his daughter for help. She is reasonably computerate but responded "I use Windows. I don't know anything about linux." The problems, I understand, were generic computer ones such as emailer and web.

I've heard similar stories from clients who, when I suggest linux, respond with, "My tech guy says no (for various reasons that come down to, 'I don't know linux.')."

[engine]

@ dstiles
Many Linus people i've spoken to are "geeks" and know the software inside out. i have never yet found any of them to be helpful. I think this is the main stumbling block for Linux. That, coupled with the support network. You have to be a "geek" to know how to get support. There's no easy way to break through.

@graeme_p
I have an old (4-years) Windows 10 machine underutilised, but still working for some projects. Could this be used without removing Win 10 on it?

What next?

[brotherhood of LAN]

I started out with Ubuntu but use Debian nowadays.

If I had a gripe, the battery life is lower on my Linux installation, about 3 hours vs 12 hours on Windows. Likely all to do with drivers and perhaps Linux ones get neglected a bit more than Windows, particularly for graphics.

[mack]

The first time I tried Linux I didn't stick with it either. I had very similar experiences to Engine. Back then I was running Suse 8.0 on what was even then classed as old hardware. It is often said that Linux will run well on older hardware, but in fairness (whilst this is true) new hardware will still give you a better user experience. Nowadays modern distros like Ubuntu tend to have a lot of support for most hardware, so you shouldn't have the same issues. Although for the best experience ensure the hardware you get is listed as compatible.

Even although I am a Linux user and I will admit I do encourage people to use it, I can see there are cases where this is simply not practical or even possible.

There are however situations where you can find suitable alternatives. My two main hobbies are photography and videography. You would think that would tie my in with the Adobe suite of tools. I have been able to get by just fine using a mix of Blender, Gimp and Davinci Resolve. In my situation, the tables are reversed. If I was to move back to Windows and move to the Adobe toolset I would be faced with a huge learning curve. As it stands I have 10 years of experience of using what I currently use. It's all about choosing what works for you.

I would never claim Linux (any distro) is perfect they all have their strengths and weaknesses. One thing about Linux... It seldomly goes wrong, but when it does it goes very wrong. Debugging a fault can be difficult, and community-based support can lead to several possible solutions. Some may work and some may make the situation worse. You do need to develop a bit of an understanding of how the system works.

One question that I always ask is could I go back to Windows? The answer is "yes I could". I think the same could be said about most Linux users. When you consider existing Windows users, most probably could not seamlessly move to Linux. I think that says a lot.

Mack.

[brotherhood of LAN]

> I think the same could be said about most Linux users.

I sporadically log into windows to play some old strategy games (civ 6 as it happens). If I don't log in in a while, I get the "shut down and update" nonsense. Next time I boot up it's a 2 minute episode. Then there's the disabling of whatever-sync-thing they do and the warnings it gives me that it's off. All those notifications that pop up. That's reason alone I would not switch back, but I'm a tech user so Linux is perhaps an easier option.

[mack]

brotherhood of LAN that was one of the main reasons I moved away. The Windows update procedure just takes over your system. I guess many Windows users just see that as the "norm"... although with Windows marketshare in the desktop, it pretty much is!

Mack.

[graeme_p]

@engine I have found things like the Q&A forum for Ubuntu pretty helpful to people who are not Linux geeks.

Once Linux is setup on a machine it tends to need less ongoing support than Windows.

You can dual boot, and the installers for many distributions support it. Not something I have ever done myself, but as far as I know, as long as you use an installer that does support it.

[graeme_p]

@engine, another alternative is to run Linux in a VM. Virtualbox with seamless mode is pretty nice ( have used it to run a Windows VM on Linux).

Pick a newbie distro with friendly forums: Mint used to be excellent, although I have not used it for a while. askubuntu.com is less geeky than the old forums. Zorin might be worth looking at but never used it myself.

Stay away from Arch, Slack, and the like!

This article is pretty good: [itsfoss.com...]

[TorontoBoy]

My Aunt was auto-upgraded from W7 to W10, which really screwed up her machine, which was not certified for W10. After a couple of hours I got it back to W7. I offered her linux and she did not hesitate. Kubuntu 18.04 has been rock solid. Though she has dual boot, she has never gone back to W7. Due to the pandemic I have not been able to update it for her for 5 months, but it still runs well. She only does email and a couple of games.

I've been on Linux for about 6 years and love it. Though I have a dual boot it has been 3 years since my last win boot, so I hope it is still alive. My first lubuntu installs in 2012 were terrible and really turned me off, but I did return. I also dabble with very old PCs, 500mb ram, and the small Puppy Linux et al, are the only OSs that will run, and run pretty well. I am always impressed when Win XP is a dog, but Puppy Linux makes the PC usable.

You really need to embrace the Open source philosophy. There are alternative packages out there to what is on Win, most of the time. If you can't deal with that then you are forced to stick with MS. I don't force anyone to switch, but my Aunt has been very happy.

China may be the best thing for linux. If the CCP decides to move the country off W7 to linux, then linux will get a huge boost in popularity. What has not been embraced by Western governments (barring Germany, for a while), may be possibly welcomed by China.

[dstiles]

> Stay away from Arch, Slack, and the like!

I use Manjaro (an Arch-ish OS) with XFCE desktop on two of my machines and it's pretty good. Forum is active and generally helpful, too. Advantage over Ubuntu/Mint family is rolling releases, which avoids the recent debacle over having to install Mint 20 to update from 19, which I and my brother (and a few others) found traumatic.

[graeme_p]

@torontoboy I do the same I have a 12 year old laptop still in use (OK, all I do is play Wesnoth on it occasionally, but its in use!) running a lightweight distro (anti) and several other old machines running Debian or Ubuntu with XFCE. It is very environmentally friendly to avoid replacing hardware because of the huge impact of manufacturing electronics.

@dstiles I have been thinking of moving to a rolling release distro myself. Any stability issues with Manjaro? Particularly with my my current hardware includes a Nvidia graphics card that has issues with upgrades (if I use the properitary drive, which I no longer do) on the non-rolling version of OpenSUSE.

Mint is particularly annoying because you have to do a fresh install to upgrade. Most distros do not though - in fact its the only one I know of that does. Debian and Ubuntu very rarely have problems upgrading to a new versions (I last experienced one 16 years ago!).

[engine]

Well, this is an interesting thread, and is, perhaps, an example of one of the reasons for the status of Linux uptake.

Clearly, there are lots of different versions, and for someone that doesn't use it, it makes it more difficult to decide. If I take the wrong route I may end up with the same situation when I first tried Linux all those years ago.

[mack]

Engine, The version I use is called Kubuntu. It's pretty much Ubuntu with the KDE desktop environment. I used to run plain Ubuntu but never got comfortable with the native desktop (unity was a mess). With KDE you can give it to a windows user and they "get it". The menus are all located on the button at the lower left and work a lot like the Windows start menu. I have installed it for quite a few people and all get along with it very well.

The biggest question a potential user needs to ask is will it work for me? Linux is free, but that's not enough of a reason to switch if you won't be able to use it as you need to. If you need to use Windows only software then you should be using Windows. there are workarounds, but workarounds are not a perfect solution.

Mack.

[engine]

I need to use Windows for compatibility, but, three and a bit hours to update one windows machine today. That sounds to me like a good reason to investigate. I know several other people that are very frustrated with the huge productivity problems with Windows updates: One of them lives at home.

Let me ask a generic question. From all the Linux alternatives, what are your top three Linux version alternatives that would be most easily adopted by a non-technical Windows user?

[graeme_p]

@engine the paradox of choice?

Pick one of the safe choices. I think Kubuntu or Mint (the main Cinnamon based edition) are safe with active communities.

Take a look at some videos and screenshots, then try a live USB.

if at some point in the future you want to use a different distro its not that difficult. Especially if you partition your hard drive from the start so your home directory is on a different partition to the OS.

@mack the big difference between KDE and Windows is that KDE is very configurable so you can make it different from windows if you want to - when I use KDE it does not look at all like Windows. Some distros also have Windows like configs of XFCE, and Mint does that with Cinnamon.

[dstiles]

@graeme_p
I have run manjaro for a couple of years now on two machines and FOR ME no serious problems, just the occasional niggle. I do not have nvidia but that seems to be one of the most frequent questions in the Manjaro forum. I recommend scanning that forum before adoption, though they recently had a forum crash and the new one only has a few hundred postings; they do have a seacheable archive of the old forum, though.

@engine
My first linux machine (not counting 20 years ago) was Ubuntu with the Mate desktop. I switched to Mint + Mate when the disastrous Unity came out and Ubuntu became heavier. I have two desktops, a laptop and an online mail server with versions of Mint, two of them with Mate and two with XFCE (which I now prefer to Mate). I considered KDE was too resource-hungry, although I believe the new KDE Neon may be vastly improved. My other two desktops are Manjaro, a user-friendly version of Arch - again with XFCE.

My reasonably computerate brother currently runs a couple of Mint + Mate machines and several years ago introduced an elderly friend to it to replace of an old Windows machine. The friend, almost completely non-computerate, took to the machine for general daily use and has no wish to return to Windows.

A few weeks ago I installed Mint 20 (Ulyana) on a machine - twice. It worked after a fashion but was clumsy, especially with regards to local network access - dragging and dropping files between machines, for example. The hardware died after a few days (probably nothing to do with Mint) and I got a new machine. I tried Mint 20 again but could not get a good installation so I installed Mint 19.2 instead, which I was already using on a laptop. (My brother had a similar bad experience of 20.) The choice of Mint was governed by one piece of software which had to run on a debian-like OS. A week after that a Manjaro-compatible version of the software became available and works, so next time I'll probably run up Manjaro for it.

I have also run up Lubuntu on a couple of ancient machines and it seemed to work, but they are only emergency machines and so normally unused.

You should also be aware of the use of the distro. My Mint + Mate works well for the postfix/dovecot mail server online but my local mail server on Manjaro is not so good. If you have nvidia be cautious of ANY linux - they will generally work but I've seen a LOT of "how do I..." discussions.

My Manjaro machines are both AMD processors, my Mint machines are a mix of AMD and Intel.

[tangor]

The "why not" could simply be because there are SO MANY DIFFERENT VERSIONS of Linux out there, and locating all the "bolt on" stuff required to induce WinDoze folks to make the shift.

I have a Linux box, and it works quite well, but took a few years to get it where I needed it to be ... and even then, for SOME applications I still need that Windows machine/apps to finalize the job. HOWEVER that could simply be that I have not yet found the Linux version to do the same.

And life is that short ... and there's only so much time...

[graeme_p]

From all the Linux alternatives, what are your top three Linux version alternatives that would be most easily adopted by a non-technical Windows user?

1. Kubuntu - I had various people including my father, my daughter's pre-school principal, and my kids using this at various times with few issues. I think my wife has too, although she currently uses XFCE. You can switch between the various Ubuntu variants by installing new software (and it then lets you choose which you want to use when you login - as do other Linux distors).
2. Mint Cinnamon. Probably a bit more likely to be troublesome at first, and does not do online major version upgrades. A lot of people have found it to be problem free, and forums are very helpful.

Not sure about a third. There are a few contenders: Zorin, Elementary, MX Linux and Solus. I have not used them but they look promising and other people seem to like them as starter distros. I have used the commercial predecessor to MX, Mepis, and it was pretty good.

Also, remember, switching to a different Linux distro is much easier than switching between OSes. I have always kept home directories on a separate partition so when I have switched, I reinstalled reinstalled, asked the installer to not reformat the partition, and in most cases I was there. With some installers I also needed to either specify the user numbers for existing users during the install or change file ownership afterwards.

[graeme_p]

@dstiles Thanks. i would like to switch to a rolling distro, but need my work machine to be stable so that is reassuring.

[explorador]

Mack+: Why not Linux?
What would convince you to try Desktop Linux

I actually tried and used Linux for a couple of years as my main OS, and I loved it, better battery, speed, space, efficiency, no real need for antivirus, etc, besides my work as a developer was way more intense. But diff types of work and businesses mean diff types of needs for each people, in my case such experience had limitations in terms of apps and features, specially hardware related, not to mention certain apps don't exist on Linux, and switching to weak equivalents is actually dumb, you go with whatever does it for you and stick with it. A power user on 3D studio max won't be a power user on Maya, such things require time, and even so you just can't export and use the files with 100% transparency, in fact you can't even do that within specific versions of 3Ds Max.

As a webmaster I left developing tools behind and now I actually code (as many other developers) on "notepad" style apps (it's just code, text). Unfortunately that's not the case with certain types of work on diff levels where Apps actually mean something and are worth their price, not to forget not every app exist on all operative systems. Lots of people would pay good money to have their loved apps on Linux, but somehow it's not happening.

Now? today? I've been tempted to go back to Linux, but my personal work (not web or coding related business) moved me to invest on certain type of hardware that has special and specific features, and some of that is not supported on Linux, so today it's not an option, and using Virtual Machines or having multiple computers is not my thing. Why not Linux? well, some of us are not tied specifically to Windows, but instead due to software are tied to SPECIFIC windows versions and will only move forward when the software allows a fully transparent experience.

Going back to the past: tried diff Linux distros. Loved Ubuntu but back then wasn't fully (officially) supported, and some stuff just wouldn't work due to the specific software packages differences. Liked Mint but hated the color and some limitations. Among diff experiments decided to stay with Xubuntu, but as many others experienced, sometimes copying files worked but without file copy progress (no progress window at all) and you were left wondering "what happened?" only to see your files gradually appearing on the destination. The thing is Windows has bugs, Linux has bugs too (unless you are on Debian, but that's another discussion).

[blend27]

..Why?..

Why and What to do what with it? To save an old laptop, OK, to see how the kernel works? OK, to show Kids how Linux(... any version ) works, hmm, TikTok after 2 minutes <--

Banking and Mobile and Social is IOS and/or Android Apps for the most part...

Let it Rain....

[mcneely]

Dyed in the wool Windows user back in the day. Windows 98 and XP were the bees knees as far as I was concerned. I started messing about with Linux back in 2004-5 -- I dual-booted at first and as time went on, I began using Linux more and more. The 3GB virus we have come to know as Windows Vista essentially put me on the path to Linux permanence.

Over the course of time I chose Debian. Over the course of even more time, I realized that I really couldn't stand Ubuntu (ugly) - I've tried lots of Debian stuff. Eventually I settled in on a build that looked and acted the "least" like Ubuntu, while still providing the core that Ubuntu provided.

For desktop, Mint doesn't have all of that docking rubbish. If you looked at Mint, you would never guess it even used Ubuntu for it's base. You can see Ubuntu in builds like Elementary OS, Zorin, Manjaro, and many others. You can't see Ubuntu in Mint.

I was a Microsoft Windows fan-boy for many years. The impact Microsoft had on me for all of those years shows even today in my Mint. With Mint, I have the standard desktop UI - The basic same UI as Windows 98, XP, and 7 -- Simple, straight forward and to-the-point. I've never needed fancy docking or tiles - Just give me a "desktop" and I'm golden.

As far as Windows centric software? Yes. One of the reasons I didn't go to Linux quicker was that I had Windows software. I adapted however. I can't stand GIMP ... it's useless (at least to me).
I paid good money for my Photoshop and I wasn't about to throw it all away for a Linux build. I loved Linux, but I loved my Photoshop more.

Long story short? I use Linux Mint "20" and I still have my Photoshop, Microsoft Office, and believe it or not, I even occasionally still use my Macromedia Dreamweaver.
It's not rocket science porting fonts and libraries from Windows 7 in to the WINE folders to make this stuff work.
Last year I loaded a Windows 7 icons/graphics package into my Linux Mint build and now I have the best of both worlds. It looks like Windows but performs like Linux. As far as older hardware? One of my primary workhorses around here is a 12 year old HP xw4600 Workstation QuadCore (Runs faster with Linux Mint that a 1 year old i7 PC does with Windows 10)

As an aside, upgrading from Mint 19 to Mint 20 took 40 minutes -- On the other hand, upgrading from Windows 7/8.1 to Windows 10 took 6 1/2 hours.

"Why Not Linux?"

There are so many distros out there that people can become confused - The Linux community itself is solely responsible for the slowness of it's own adoption by the billions of PC users out there.
People don't like to be confused ... Microsoft knows this, and leverages that point around the world every day.