Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from

Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Forum Request: Move frameworks in to separate dedicated forum!

Using jQuery is not good for anyone or the internet.

5:00 pm on Oct 23, 2011 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jab_creations is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 26, 2004
posts: 3164
votes: 21

I think it's time to have have a forum for JavaScript frameworks just to keep them out of the JavaScript forum. I can not iterate enough: jQuery is not JavaScript, it's an interpretation of JavaScript at best and an exceptional bad one at that. It's insidious to suggest frameworks are an acceptable solution in place of real JavaScript and misleads people who do care about what they are coding and are learning to create things that they will ultimately find out will not function reliably beyond certain points. I am not exaggerating when I say I have to use "-jquery" for more than half my JavaScript related search queries and that I have seen suggestions to use jQuery (on another forum) because someone wanted to change a className, something that can be done in less than 70 bytes statically.

I am tired of visiting the forums to help people and end up having to explain why dumping a 76KB file that doesn't do anything on it's own (and having to point out to people who suggest in reply that the frameworks aren't that big that 99% of the time that yes, they are that big when they are transferred from the sites I've encountered), why it's bulk is a bandwidth killer for people on dialup and 4G networks (it's 4G across the entire country except the spot you are standing in), depends on unreliable proprietary Microsoft methods such as innerHTML, supports versioning (making it very likely to break with a browser released half a year ago with the asinine things happening at Mozilla Corporation), is devastating slower than native implementations, why people should use object detection instead, etc. There are no benefits to using frameworks and everything written using frameworks has already been written without them!

It would be nice to see the new forum sunk to the bottom of the Code, Content and Presentation forum group. Yes, there are going to be people who are not coders working with code for some reason who just want the easiest fastest way to do something though at the end of the day when bad code finally breaks (and I see it break all the time) it's competent coders who come in to real demand. However having learned a great deal especially with the help of other posters here in the years that I've spent I can not endorse misleading the more inexperienced people (which I was once one of myself) down paths that will ultimately negate much of the time they have invested should they begin to reach those points where frameworks are no longer able to feign reliability. That's what forums are for: people helping other people and I think it's time we cut down on misleading people in to using frameworks under the notion that they are an acceptable solution or that they are reliable because they are neither.

- John
5:55 pm on Oct 27, 2011 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

5+ Year Member

joined:July 30, 2009
posts: 130
votes: 0

+1 for creating a subforum, but I don't agree that frameworks are a terrible thing. Remember that a lot of the internet is coded by regular people with very little interest in programming; frameworks can make it worth their while to even use javascript.

That being said, I have never once used a framework. That's because I'm not one of those regular people; I want to write concise and efficient code, and not just finish an assignment. I want to know what my code is doing, and I want to learn how to do it better the next time around. So for me as well, framework posts are just clutter.