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honestly: do adult sites drive innovation?

settle a dispute between a friend and i

         

papercut

8:56 pm on Dec 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



for years i have heard the arguement, most recently from a friend that does a substantial business designing adult sites.

the theory is that adult sites drive innovation. whether its graphics, databases, bandwidth issues, layout styles, etc.. here is the most competitive of industries that virtually committed itself to online sales overnight - with one of the most fickle consumer bases ever. here designers get to test their best work, their most radical marketing schemes and have free reign for their most creative designs..

of course there is also the theory that adult sites are the only reason that anyone makes huge amounts of money on the net anymore...but that is another topic, for another forum.

now, although i have to say i have never built an adult site, i think he may have a point. i have *skimmed* (lol) a few and found their layout and sophiscation to be of extremely high quality in a lot of instances. certainly i can see how certain sites and their design firms drive a type of graphic concept into the mainstream.

what do you think?

mat_bastian

9:15 pm on Dec 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm just guessing, but I believe that adult, gambling, and other sectors considered to be seedy, bring in the largest levels of money on the web. I may be wrong, but if I'm not then all things being equal, it would make sense that those sectors drive innovation as, monetarilly, they have the most at stake.

seth_wilde

9:20 pm on Dec 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The adult industry has played a major part in driving new technology. But it's not just limited to the internet...

Here's a great article on the subject
[observer.co.uk...]

papercut

9:21 pm on Dec 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm just guessing, but I believe that pornography, gambling, and other sectors considered to be seedy, bring in the largest levels of money on the web. I may be wrong, but if I'm not then all things being equal, it would make sense that those sectors drive innovation as, monetarilly, they have the most at stake.

thats a pretty safe reply. lol

but would you go so far as to say that designers are solving problems for these industries and we "just happen" to be getting the benefit of this work?

example: the defense industry works at breakneck speed to resolve aviation limitations, driving the process along as fast as possible to stay ahead of competition, threat etc.
commerical aviation pursuits reap the benefit of such research as it becomes available to the general public.

in the case of design. there are no top secret limitations at all. so the trickle down would conceivably happen faster.

what has been everyone's experience? are younger designers being drawn to do more adult work than in the past?

papercut

9:27 pm on Dec 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



seth - this is an amazing article! i am reading and its confirming all my suspicions. its all worrying my mind - as i am the father of a small toddler.

and it makes me say: what is the future of my industry? what is the future of small children? as we have been whole failures at preventing even the most obienant and innocent of children worldwide from being exposed to adult content. i mean really, tech industry is doing a horrible job of keeping adult content out of children's hands. and even the nicest kid is going to peek if she/he gets a chance. (whats the hullaboloo about?, they will ask.)

excellent article. i am forwarding it to friends and associates when i finish.

brakthepoet

5:56 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Reason magazine did an article on this very topic several years ago, and 20 minutes of Googling still doesn't bring it up. Grrrr. I'll see what I can remember from the story. Anyway, the author in Reason asserted that sex was a huge driver for technology. Answering machines were available in the 50's so high-dollar prostitutes wouldn't miss any clients. Porn not only encouraged the growth of the VHS format, but pornos were available to the public on VHS several years before any Hollywood movie was available in either VHS or Beta. Watermarking of images was also an invention of the porn industry (I believe by Playboy). And right now there are people working on making tactile and aural experiences possible for cybersex.

dcheney

6:12 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Many years ago I worked at a Market Research firm that specialized in techology markets. One of the analyst guys there had a theory (not sure if it was ever published) that you can accurately predict which competing technologies would win out by which one had more pornography available for it (or which ones the porn industry didn't adopt). The classic example being VHS vs. BetaMax. But also the failure of the porn industry to adopt the old "big" video disc format - and the later adoption and success of dvds. And so on.

There were others that argued that what he was seeing was simply a secondary effect (i.e., vhs was cheaper to produce, thus yielding higher profit margins, thus was more adopted by porn industry which is much more interested in cost than quality).

I can't say that I've formed an opinion myself - they both seem to have merit - but these ideas were being tossed around in the late 1980's.

chiyo

6:38 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think its a mixture of being first - and the money. Generally being first, and innovative go hand in hand - as there's not much to copy! Porn was first as it was in photography etc. Add to that the major advantage of the web that you no longer had to sneak out of the newspaper shop with a brown paper packaging hoping you didnt get caught. It was the relative privacy as well as the distributed nature that porn a natural for the web as it moved from text to pictures. That also made porn higly profitable if done right, and is causing the decline of the major soft porn magazines like Playboy for example I think. In the online world.competition meant that innovation was absilutely necessary, from appealing home pages to quick databases, to security.

So its not so much that they ARE porn merchants in that are driving innovation - its more that they were the first movers and first profiters just because they were a natural (like they were for the early days of photography and moving pictures. (what the butler saw..)

The most innovation ive seen from porn sites BY FAR is increasingly sophisticated spam techniques.

EliteWeb

6:45 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I believe it does drive innovation because of the people backing the companies, because of the needs of the companies and the technology always needing to be better - to go faster- and to do new things. Wether or not people like the industry its a very money intense world. Having gone to comdex and then an adult show guess who had the more amazing booths? The adult show, it truely showed how much money these people bring in, and having worked in the field I can tell you some of the technology we developed has been used way outside of adult sites and is used by many sites today. Money drives innovation, it just happens the adult market is a money driver.

Why do DVDs have the multi-angle button? :P

tedster

10:56 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Since this is the Browsers forum, it makes sense to mention that adult sites have found and exploited a lot of holes in browser security. It always fascinated me that browser coercion techniques actually work as a marketing tactic. We've seen every thing from dead back buttons, through infinite pop-up loops and auto-bookmarking, to home page hijacking.

Or maybe these methods didn't really help the bottom line, but they were just worth a try.

copongcopong

10:56 pm on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



it simply means that they have a very marketable product which drives in revenue to push and fund new technology to make their product/service more innovative.

perversion is just a credit card away.

txbakers

1:56 am on Dec 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Apparently NPR in the states just did a story on that very topic as well. Didn't go over too well in the Bible Belt.

One minister responsed to the story by saying that religion was another driving factor in the growth of technology.

The question then, is, who makes more money over TV? Adult channels or TV Preachers like Pat Robertson?

I find it hard to believe that VCRs and the Internet were driven by adult content needs. I do believe that once these technologies were established, the adult industry saw them as a great way to distribute product.

Think about it: Do you really think the invention of the telephone was driven by a desire for phone ***?