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"Expires" meta tag - on a lot of major sites

... what is the aim?

         

internetheaven

11:08 am on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

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<meta http-equiv="expires" content="Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:21:57 GMT" />

seems to be quite popular with some major (i.e. large branded) companies in the UK. What is it for and why set it to something as ridiculous as 1997?

larryhatch

11:21 am on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Beats me. Even with a more sensible date I can only guess at the intent.
Is this a way of asking for a re-crawl of the page?
If so, somebody must think a date like 1997 will cry out for more frequent crawls. -Larry

Allan Rasmussen

7:43 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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For asking robots to reindex the page, you've got revisit-after (however, it is not likely to have any effect nowadays). The "expires" tells UAs that the content of the page expires at the given date and time, so caches should be updated by then. The reason it says 1997 can be because they wish the UAs to update the cache at every visit, or, more likely I suppose, it's just legacy code which hasn't been updated or removed.

tedster

8:07 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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These two meta tags were never "obeyed" by major search engines in my experience. They were originally introduced in proprietary situations and just spread through the urban legend grapevine. Save some bandwidth, and don't bother with them.

Allan Rasmussen

10:17 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I highly doubt the target is search machine crawlers, when you use the http-equiv "expires". And I'd be very surprised if no UA obeyed it.

Receptional Andy

10:22 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)



I thought this tag was to tell UAs to ignore the local cache and get a new copy of the page if the date specified has passed. Don't know if it works though!

So, the aim on sites may be to stop visitors using a cache of pages.

[w3.org...]

mattur

10:41 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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See: How (and how not) to Control Caches [mnot.net]

HTML authors can put tags in a document’s <HEAD> section that describe its attributes. These meta tags are often used in the belief that they can mark a document as uncacheable, or expire it at a certain time.

Meta tags are easy to use, but aren’t very effective. That’s because they’re only honored by a few browser caches (which actually read the HTML), not proxy caches (which almost never read the HTML in the document). While it may be tempting to put a Pragma: no-cache meta tag into a Web page, it won’t necessarily cause it to be kept fresh.

mcvoid

1:39 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I was under the impression that most UA's update their caches automatically at least once a day - some do it every visit as far as the HTML file is concerned and will only update the rest if the HTML has changed. I can't say that for a fact, though.

pageoneresults

1:54 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



For asking robots to reindex the page, you've got revisit-after (however, it is not likely to have any effect nowadays).

No we don't.

Revisit-After META Tag
The myth continues in 2004
[webmasterworld.com...]

Note to self. I need to update the description of that topic to read...

The myth continues in 2006

The "expires" tells UAs that the content of the page expires at the given date and time, so caches should be updated by then. The reason it says 1997 can be because they wish the UAs to update the cache at every visit, or, more likely I suppose, it's just legacy code which hasn't been updated or removed.

It can also send an instruction to remove the page as it has expired and is no longer valid content. A misinterpretation of the standards possibly?

Anything to do with expiration should be handled at the server level using the proper HTTP Headers.

encyclo

1:59 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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The link in mattur's post above is to one of the most detailed and authoritative sources on web caching - it's a very worthwhile read!

In this particular case, certain browsers may not keep a copy of the page in the browser cache, but the efect is limited.

pageoneresults

2:07 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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More information in a basic format...

7.4.4 Meta data
[w3.org...]

The http-equiv attribute can be used in place of the name attribute and has a special significance when documents are retrieved via the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP). HTTP servers may use the property name specified by the http-equiv attribute to create an [RFC822]-style header in the HTTP response. Please see the HTTP specification ([RFC2616]) for details on valid HTTP headers.

internetheaven

2:10 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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So basically that tag does not have a set rule/intent to it? All crawlers and/or browsers may treat it completely different to each other?

Remember, these are some of the top companies in the UK, I have to assume that they all have hired the top notch internet staff to run their websites. I doubt external SEO/Design firms are responsible for this sort of thing in this instance!

Allan Rasmussen

2:33 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



No we don't.

I have read the main text you link to (though somewhere else), but has it ever been confirmed by any of the old search engines? Anyway, I would never use it today of course.

The link in mattur's post above is to one of the most detailed and authoritative sources on web caching - it's a very worthwhile read!

What is the connection between that one, and [web-caching.com...] ? Seems to be mostly the same (no wonder with the mnot name). Same authors, this one more thorough but also outdated perhaps? But I agree, it's a really great tutorial!

[edited by: encyclo at 4:20 pm (utc) on May 24, 2006]
[edit reason] fixed link ;) [/edit]

mattur

4:18 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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So basically that tag does not have a set rule/intent to it? All crawlers and/or browsers may treat it completely different to each other?

I would expect all crawlers to ignore it completely. Some browsers theoretically support it (IE5.5+, don't know about others) but cannot support it if there is a cache upstream that doesn't parse the HTML, only the HTTP headers (the browser won't cache the page but the upstream cache probably will).

Remember, these are some of the top companies in the UK, I have to assume that they all have hired the top notch internet staff to run their websites

That's a pretty big assumption ;)

What is the connection between that one, and [web-caching.com...]

The Cacheability Engine and related docs were written by Mark Nottingham and are published on mnot.net. web-caching.com also hosts a copy (along with other related resources).

The latest revision of this document can always be obtained from [mnot.net...]

tedster

8:10 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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seems to be quite popular with some major (i.e. large branded) companies in the UK.

This would lead me to think that the "large" companies involved make some internal use of the meta tag.

internetheaven

8:36 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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This would lead me to think that the "large" companies involved make some internal use of the meta tag.

Go on. What use could you have for such a tag?

tedster

9:54 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Big companies spider their own websites and then make the information available on their intranet, organized as they see fit for their own knowledge base. This practice has created proprietary types of meta data and even custom meta tags.