Keyword lists at bottom of page?

(but should I be doing it?)

[giggle]

In an effort to push up throught the SERPs I made a list of the key words I would like users to find us using, and placed them at the bottom of my page. Not hidden, black bold font on a light blue cell background.

The results were really quite good, althought it looks a bit ugly. We moved up on all the phrases that I listed.

Does Google allow this or will I eventually be penalised?

[qball0213]

Speculation? Looks like spam to me, a good test would be to ask yourself if you would feel comfortable doing it. I put keywords at the bottom of one of pages once, for about two hours, before I removed them. It does work for a lot of sites, the ones that have fifty links to "other pages" at the bottom, etc.

[Lots0]

I have been wondering if

Jacob Nielsen, Jakob Neilsen, Jacob Neilsen, Jakob Nielson, Jacob Nielson, Jakob Neilson, Jacob Neilson, Jakob Nilsen, Jacob Nilsen, Jakob Nelson, Jacob Nelson

Is on Google’s technical advisory board - Just what is he advising them on?

Anyone have any ideas? You just know he can't be advising Google on Spam prevention...;)

[Liane]

I doubt that Googleguy will touch this one with a ten foot pole. There is no question that this is keyword stuffing at its ugliest and I don't care if it is just his name! Its spam IMHO and a flagrant example of it at that!

I will be disappointed in Google if they allow this to continue. I have no doubt that Googleguy is lurking out there. Please GG ... demonstrate just how fair Google is across the board and that it isn't just us WebmasterWorld junkies who have to follow the rules as set out by Google.

"*Avoid hidden text or hidden links."

If what this "guru" has done isn't considered hidden text ... then I don't know what is!

"*Don't load pages with irrelevant words. "

His name is spelled, Jakob Nielsen. Not any of the other spellings he used. Is that relevant?

And he is on Googles technical advisory board.

Then he most certainly knows better! Shame on you Mr. Nielsen!

[The_Hitcher]

Waynet - no it wasn't microsized text. Google however regarded it as a way to raise PR and for that reason dumped me. I might add, they reinstated me again days later after an apologetic email and a frantic clean up, but its not a mistake I'd EVER risk again. My heart sank to my boots! Microtext or not, my guess is that if your site has attention drawn to it by a spam report, you could quite likely face removal as such tactics are hardly for the benefit of users are they? Happened to me anyway - I rest my case.

[chiyo]

Anyone done a spam report on Jakob yet?

[sem4u]

The thing is does this page rank highly for the hidden text phrases? If it doesn't then Google probably wouldn't be all that bothered, especially and he has already had a bit of a 'pasting' in here!

[waynet]

Well, I did a quick check, that site ranks #1 for all except for Jakob Nelson and Jacob Nelson. Perhaps in a few months this thread will outrank it for some of those names.

[Liane]

Anyone done a spam report on Jakob yet?

Yes. I did. Google Guru, technical board or not ... he is breaking the rules and unfairly spamming the SE's. He deserved to be reported. Whether Google does anything about it or not remains to be seen.

[indigojo]

What about that Monty Python song...

SPAM SPAM SPAM
SPAMSPAMSPAM
SPAM SPAM SPAM
SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM SPAM SPAM

Brett you better chuck another style class up

[unusable]unusable[/unusable]

[incywincy]

shouldn't someone get in touch with zdnet and tell them he isn't "the smartest person on the web"?

[DrDoc]

I've been in contact with Jakob, and just waiting for his response.

The initial contact was very frank and to the point. I labeled his micro text as SE spam, and also complained about the non-W3C standard code.

If he really is a "guru of Web usability", then shouldn't he be more concerned about being able to label his site as conforming to the WCAG-triple-A recommendations?

[mayor]

C'mon folks. Give the guy a break. If you were an executive advisor to the worlds biggest search engine wouldn't you expect a few perks? Like maybe a reserved front row parking space!

[deft_spyder]

you guys arent going to believe this.

i just discovered that some common mispellings of my name are:

britney spears, porn, nsync, and shakira :)

[danny]

Hmmm... www.gogle.com redirects to www.google.com - trying to catch common misspellings isn't something Google can get too worked up about.

[jamsy]

check item 4. on this link ;)

[useit.com ]

[Krapulator]

Calling Googleguy......

So can we do this as well GG?

Ten bucks says the micro text disappears in the next 24 hours

[Liane]

Hey, this site has Jakob Nielson's credit card number!

jamsy ... that's hilarious! Great find. ;)

Ten bucks says the micro text disappears in the next 24 hours

Looks like you win! Its gone. :)

[deltakits]

Looks like you win! Its gone.

It's still there for me

:)

[Liane]

Well son of a gun! I can't see it on the page anymore ... but it is in the source code. Hmmmmmm ...

[deltakits]

Perhaps you went blind trying to read that small of text? ;)

[jackofalltrades]

Yeh, I can still see it....although it may be getting smaller....

[Liane]

Perhaps you went blind trying to read that small of text?

Well ... its true that I have very poor eyesight, but I never thought it was that bad! I am betting that Mr. Neilsen is trying to be even more clever and has changed something. Don't know what ... but something!

I can't see it on the page, honest! I am using a Mac. Anyone else not seeing what I'm not seeing? (Shakes head, squints harder ... goes for lunch to rest tired eyes)

<added> Oh lord ... it is my eyes. Sorry for the false alarm folks. A friend just said he can see it! (Change that to liquid lunch. Sigh)<added> :(

[edited by: Liane at 5:59 pm (utc) on Jan. 15, 2003]

[atadams]

It's still there, but now it says "Up your's, Webmaster World!"

kidding

[Chris_D]

Brett - great find and a fantastic thread guys.

I still think the funniest hidden text is here....
http://www.spam-uk.com/

(try control A - then scroll down - to read it)

Now if ANYONE is allowed to have keyword SPAM on their page - these guys are! Maybe the best result would be that the original chopped pork and ham site should get Jakobs PR - and vice-a-versa?
:)

On a more serious note - if no action is taken by google - then I wonder how the 'selective' treatment of Jakob's site will be viewed with regards to the Searchking case claims?

[europeforvisitors]

On a more serious note - if no action is taken by google - then I wonder how the 'selective' treatment of Jakob's site will be viewed with regards to the Searchking case claims?

Google's treatment of Nielsen's site isn't "selective" unless one can show that the vast majority of other sites using the same technique have been penalized. Even then, Google could argue (truthfully, IMHO) that (a) the algorithm didn't catch it, and (b) manual penalties are applied only after judging the situation as a whole. In other words, a site might not get a manual penalty for a modest amount of hidden text or keyword stuffing, a borderline amount of crosslinking, etc., but a combination of several dodgy techniques might be enough to convince a Google engineer or QC technician that the site crossed the line between "questionable" and "spam."

If I were making a judgment call here, I'd probably give Nielsen the benefit of the doubt just because he does have a readily misspelled name and was probably trying to help readers find what they were looking for.

[Brett_Tabke]

...unless one can show that the vast majority of other sites using the same technique have been penalized.

That was sorta the reason I dropped it.

It also ties in with text at the bottom of the page not counting for much any more.

AND! It could be just for his own site search engine.

[jackofalltrades]

I notcied he used the <code> tag to surround his email address in his bio, which makes it dead.

Is there any point to that at all?

JOAT

[Ambiorix]

== Hmmm... www.gogle.com redirects to www.google.com - trying to catch common misspellings isn't something Google can get too worked up about. "

Yeah that's right but here Google missed an URL again...http://www.goole.com/ and you have Ask Jeeves :)

[Liane]

... and was probably trying to help readers find what they were looking for.

If we take that theory and apply it to similar uses, then I should be able to do the same thing by listing:

British Virgin Islands, BVI, Virgin Islands, VI, British Virgin Island, BVI's, VI's, BVIS, VIS, British Virgin Isles, Virgin Isles, yacht charters, yacht charter, charter, charters, sailing, sailboat, sailboats, sail boat, sail boats, catamaran, catamarans, motor yachts, motor yacht, power yacht, power yachts, power boat, power boats, motor boat, motor boats, tortola, virgin gorda, jost van dyke, St. Thomas, st. John .... and on and on ad nauseum.

After all, its what I sell and I am just trying to "help" users find what they are looking for! :)

I see no difference at all. Its spam IMHO.

[Powdork]

I see no difference at all. Its spam IMHO.

Many sites do this. Usually starting with the senrence "This site can be found using the following search phrases." I've seen many threads where the consensus was that this is ok (barely a consensus). Of course, in these cases it was in readable text that one didn't have to scroll down to get to and it was related to what could be found on the page. It will still get your site up for review her at WW which might not be such a good thing.;)