Forum Moderators: open
I feel very strongly that until we have a good grasp on why it exists, it will be very hard to beat.
I don't buy the explanation that it's intended to be a method of stopping spam. Why? One, there's too much collateral damage it is doing. Two, if you accept the 80/20 principle (20% of spammers are doing 80% of the spamming), and you realize that there are multiple ways already of beating the sandbox that all of those spammers are aware of, it doesn't make sense anymore.
So, why does the sandbox exist?
The most obvious effect of the sandbox is that it prevents new domains (not pages) from ranking for any relatively competitive term. So, start thinking like a search engine - what would be the benefit of this?
there are 2 posiibilities:
- if new site A is truly in the sandbox index, then the only way both and new sites appear in the same serps is that the query is non-competitive. i have seen queries yielding 25000+ serps which is a mixture of supplemental and non-supplemental pages. when this happens, the ordering/ranking of the serps is not pr based (it can't be since supplementals do not have pr!). in the example above with 25000+ results, the number one spot was for a supplemental page. this would explain what you see if the sandbox is a separate index like the supplemental.
- the other possibility is that the new site is not in the sandbox index. if it has pr and show up in backlinks, then it is not in the sandbox.
>>2. Why do new sites appear at the top of serps for the allin commands?
again it depends on how many results you get with the query. some of my allin searches show supplemental results, which is an indication that google is not using the main index solely for the specific serps. i keep using the supplemental index because we know for sure that the page is not in the main index. i'm using the behavious of supplemental pages (i.e. separate index) as a model for the behaviour of the sandbox index.
>>3. Why did my PR get updated in April for a sandboxed site?
if it has pr, it is not in the sandbox. the problems you have not ranking in the serps are due to other reasons - penalties, filters, you are out-seoed, etc.
>>4. Why do sites in the sandbox index appear in the link:www.oldsite.com from the main index
if a page appears as a backlink, then it is not in the sandbox. as in #3, look for other reasons
You are simply wrong.
Actually, your entire theory is based on a premise of a supplemental index that you have 0 proof exists. Also, if you understood how people are getting around the sandbox, you would understand the phenomena a lot more.
<<if it has pr, it is not in the sandbox. the problems you have not ranking in the serps are due to other reasons - penalties, filters, you are out-seoed, etc. >>
No. Folks who runa lot of sites ahve the advantage of knowing the exact formula each one has used. New sites with PR are not tranking where older site with very similar techniques are. Out of curioity, renee, do you have any sites that rank on competetive terms? You seem a bit out of the loop with your research here?!
[edited by: mfishy at 12:01 am (utc) on Oct. 5, 2004]
- a sandboxed page (or in the sandbox index) does not have pr and does not appear in backlinks;
- reverse is not necessarily true: a page with no pr or does not appear in backlinks is not necessarily a sandboxed page;
- a page with pr or appears in backlinks indicates that a page is definitely not in the sandbox.
google does not explicitly indicate if a page is in the sandbox, similar to the supplemental tag. so the only way we can decide is to use the above rules. it seems like the only conclusively deduce is that a page is not in the sandbox and therefore we can apply seo techniques to achieve rankings.
if the reason for the sandbox is truly out-of-capacity problems then maybe there's nothing we can do is wait until google solves this out-of-capacity problem. or as bdw says, let's go to press and put the pressure on google to accelerate their solution.
No proof is needed. Google has acknowledged the supplemental index. where have you been?
<<a sandboxed page (or in the sandbox index) does not have pr and does not appear in backlinks; >>
Let me summarize - you are wrong.
I second mfishy, this statement is plain wrong.
IMO quite probably the Google sandbox/lag is an initially unintended side effect of something else that Google implemented. Whether it is unwanted by Google is another question though...
i run more than 50 sites and most of them rank in the top 5 of the appropriate serps. and i make very significant revenue (4 digits a month) from adsense and websearch. how about you?
let me correct. i meant to say 5 digits.
Good for you renee (I mean it, I am not being sarcastic). I am sure mfishy does very well as well. That in itself does not mean any of you is more right in this argument than the other. :)
Renee, IMO a better question would be - have you launched any/many new sites in the last 6 months? (new as in new domain name, not subdomains or new pages in existing sites).
thank you Boa. you're so kind.
>>I am sure mfishy does very well as well. That in itself does not mean any of you is more right in this argument than the other. :)
mfishy asked for my qualifications since he seems to think i'm just an amateur. now why does mfishy need you to defend his qualifications?
>>Renee, IMO a better question would be - have you launched any/many new sites in the last 6 months? (new as in new domain name, not subdomains or new pages in existing sites).
yes i have launched new sites. and like most of you i am in agony over the snadbox issue. i have about 10 new sites waiting to rank.
