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1) "Honestly, it is going to be at least a year for you to see any decent results unless you purchase Google Adwords. Google is pretty much a Pay Per Click search engine now, unless you've been around for a year or more."
2) "I realize it has been 6 months and you have spent over $20,000 on your site. Unfortunately, no amount of money is going to make you rank in the "pure" results. I sincerely apologize for telling you that I thought it would be 2-3 months. I was wrong."
3) "You are asking when your site will start making money? I have no clue, because there is this mysterious "sandbox effect" going on at Google. I know my answer sounds like "smoke and mirrors", but I mean this sincerely, and I don't know how long it will take for things to change."
4) "I'm very disappointed that you have decided to stop using my services and instead are now using spamtheseachengines.com. I've tried to market your site using knowledge I've gained with over 6 years of experience, and unfortunately there is a major delay in seeing the results that I expected. I still believe you are going to benefit, even though spamthesearchengines.com is going to get all the credit."
What are you telling your customers?
s the sandbox effect in some way adding value to the search results?
To the degree that it keeps out the garbage sites that launch with no content and 10k incoming links, yes. And if it means the other sites have to wait for a couple months before getting in the SERPs, so be it. Back in the day ('97-98) we used to tell clients it was a minimum of 6-9 months before they'd start to see traffic from AltaVista, Excite, WebCrawler, etc. Things are much better now.
Should I tell my customers to invest in Google stock or buy Adwords? Or should I tell them that the behemoth Microsoft has awakened and to sit tight while we keep adding quality to their site?
I don't know of any business owner who, when seeking to increase revenue, market share, ROI, whatever, would appreciate being told to "sit tight", especially for something that falls squarely under the realm of the unknown.
I also don't think you should tell them to invest in Google stock unless you're licensed and qualified to provide investment advice. :)
If you're in the SEO/web development business, you should tell your customers what you know about SE rankings and ask what their goals are (which should actually be asked first). If those goals include immediate traffic from Google, you should tell them about AdWords. If keeping your clients is important, your personal animosity toward Google should have no impact on what you tell them; if they expect traffic from that source, it's your job to help them get it, or they'll find someone else who can.
So Yahoo is already in the door, this will conclude the end of the two major outlets for G, first the exposure from Yahoo lost and soon to be Aol.
I wouldnt be surprised if in less then 18 months G closely resembles Yahoos business model, its on the way there already.
Of course I may be wrong in which case I owe all of you a great big slurpee:)
Google has decided that if you
1. provide original quality content
2. make it spiderable
3. provide descriptive titles and
4. get lots inbound links from related sites
you are trying to manipulate their results.
Have to disagree Powdork. That continues to be a good recipe for success with Google. But I do think if you try too hard at those things, Google considers that an attempt to manipulate results. The issue isn't what you do, it's how and to what degree you do it.
we may just decide not to fight and place our allegiances elsewhere.
Yep, the same risk any business faces.
But the SEs aren't competing for webmasters - they are competing for users - so they can shove advertising in front of them. That's the game they are all in - and probably many contributors to this forum.
The same accusations that are being made about Google only wanting to get users to click on Adwords can be levelled against Yahoo & Overture. It's no different.
But I'll accept that model any day of the week.
I want users of my website to click through the advertising on my site. But if I want that then I'd better make sure my website gives something back to the user. That's called adding value and is the basis of any long term business plan.
If I can't offer anything of value to the user then why I do I deserve the user in the first place? On the other hand if I do offer something of (true) value to the user then I will attract users back.
Merely reverse engineering a search algorithm is not adding value for the end user.
Are you a destination or a detour?
It's time to look beyond SEO.
If keeping your clients is important, your personal animosity toward Google should have no impact on what you tell them; if they expect traffic from that source, it's your job to help them get it, or they'll find someone else who can.
My purpose for starting this thread has everything to do with customers, yet I'm not sure I'm getting too many positive suggestions...rather it seems people are either defending the sandbox effect, or talking about other search engines.
I've always been a big fan of Google, and still am, but I will admit an increased level of dissatisfaction out of problems arising from the sandbox effect.
So, what are you telling your customers about the time it takes to rank? And...what is your typical plan for a new customer?
My purpose for starting this thread has everything to do with customers, yet I'm not sure I'm getting too many positive suggestions...rather it seems people are either defending the sandbox effect, or talking about other search engines.I've always been a big fan of Google, and still am, but I will admit an increased level of dissatisfaction out of problems arising from the sandbox effect.
So, what are you telling your customers about the time it takes to rank? And...what is your typical plan for a new customer?
Sorry, dvduval. I've tried to be as helpful as possible in replying to questions about what I tell my clients and you might tell yours (starting with msg. #23). I think there is quite a bit of good feedback throughout this thread about talking to customers about the current situation with Google.
I see that all the google disappointed webmasters creating now new threads with alternative search engines, come on guys now, look at your logs ,who brings you traffic ,its only Google,believe it or not Google will stay for long time the only accurate SE and as about the sandbox who gives a cr....p-ospf
For most of my customers' sites, the logs show search engines referrals are coming from:
1. Yahoo
2. MSN
3. Google
This was NOT true about 6 months ago, most came from Google. These days I count Google as an "also ran".
Aside from the drop in referrals, (which I suspect is due to more people clicking ads on Google than pure search results).
Worse, I also find Google no longer gives me the quality results it used to, (again, I believe this is planned and due to Adsense ads).
Think about it --- if Google can make money by getting people to click ads, the best way they can increase the CTR is put the ads up against lousy search results.
I had set Google as the default home page in browser settings, (and whenever I set up a customer's computer I would change the default to Google)... No longer.
Lately I am going to Yahoo!, (and sending others there too).
Google is playing Russian Roulette in my opinion. They will only be able to live off the media hype and IPO buzz for so long before there are no "searchers" left to click ads.
Sandboxed Domain, 3.5 months old.
Yahoo 7.6%
Google 3.2%
MSN 1.8%
Yahoo's visitors are averaging 8 pageviews per visit while google's are averaging 3 pageviews.
Looking at this it occurs to me that i should wait a bit longer before I completely give up on the big G.
I am trying to find alternatives like email marketing, non-web advertising, advertising on other sites and other search engines.
Sounds like at least one bright spot with long-lasting benefits, no?
Sounds like at least one bright spot with long-lasting benefits, no?
(plus I just don't want to support the Adwords Effect..I mean sandbox effect..at least not until I understand better what is going on overall, like how long it will last)
Think about it --- if Google can make money by getting people to click ads, the best way they can increase the CTR is put the ads up against lousy search results.
Are you serious?
Think about it: Lousy search results = no users. No users = no more advertisers = no revenue.
whatever you're smoking, bring some of it to vegas.
Massive swings in the algo will be constant now to stimulate adwords sales which is there sole source of revenue.
If your assumption is true, how does that fit with "Don't be evil"?
So, what are you telling your customers about the time it takes to rank? And...what is your typical plan for a new customer?
I told him NOT to expect much from Santa Claus this year, but for next year he should be set. We're still talking. I know mine will be low budget, but I want him to learn about AdWords and Overture. The right keyword could make a good impression.
I let him know that I'll continue to work on his ranking and <other stuff>, and that support comes with a fee.
Otherwise I've built a 15 page site and its off to play my new djembe until the next guy calls.
Now number 1 on SERPs for the same phrase... that delivers results.
Luckily we are number 1 and always have been, on all phrases.
We have tried AdWords in addition to SERPs to further enhance traffic, but with £100 per day spend (a whopping 50 visitors) the increase was not even noticeable!
I worry about this model...
Overture seem to have the right idea, with PPC in the SERPs at the top. SERPs are clicked on and very effective. AdWords, I'm afraid, are not!
Google applies the classic "reverse billing" model. In this model, instead of collecting revenue forward, revenue is collected from consumers in reverse:
1. Google bills adwords merchants
2. Adword merchants collect revenue from consumers
3. Consumers suitably subsidise adword merchants
4. Google attracts consumers through content
5. Websites supply content to google
Google is a business and google does make a profit.
What would happen if the major websites formed a consortium and stopped google from indexing their pages unless google pays them?
What would happen if the major websites formed a consortium and stopped google from indexing their pages unless google pays them?
nice one. Lets extend robots exclusion standard by adding the price for every page spidered ;-)
Because Greed is Good.
Well the fact is for me, and most others in this industry the thing most definitely exits. I am not down on Google because of it due to the fact I don't know why it has emerged. I don't think the reason is to drive up Adwords revenue but it might be. It's possible the point of it is to make auto generated spam sites unprofitable due to the long start up phase. However I doubt this because those sites live on obscure terms and they do not seem to bear the real brunt of the box. Could it just be the unintended result of some other change that was instituted?
I think some good fundamental questions to think about and discuss would be;
1. Why has this thing emerged?
2. How does it function?
Understand it better and you will have your answer as to what you say to your customers regarding it.
