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Anyone else with losses please post like to get an idea of simliarities
As long as I'm helping to interrupt this thread with off-topic discussions... if anyone is sick of looking for their missing serps and wants to help me work on a database, with over a thousand entries, that needs a .dat file edited for a datum translation program, prior to being posted online, I could use a hand... :-) I'm up to the letter C.
I have several sites that are all behaving the same, all built around 3 keyword phrases. I made a change to one of them, and will leave the other two for now. Planning to do some more testing, but it does seem that the proportion of the words in the title to the words in the search might be the key. I did test changing the order around (say, kw1, kw4, kw3, kw2), and I was still filtered.
[edited by: Need3lives at 3:55 am (utc) on Nov. 26, 2003]
I've since changed pages back, and cleaned up some other domains with 301's and we'll see. Waiting for googlebot and we'll see if that makes a difference. It's just odd, since many of our main competitors have been hit by it too. (although this may have been a case of having other domains pointed to the same content- no 301's resulting in duplicate content?)
Hmm, maybe this should be treated as a vacation? Lord knows I need one.
LisaB
I have a non-profit, information site that has been ranked #1 or #2 for years and it is still there. But, a commercial site has droppped from #6 to nowhere to be found.
I favor the opinion that it is a plan gone bad, or a glitch, and it will be fixed. So, I am not changing anything just yet.
Widestrides - what is the definition of commercial vs. information? My sites are all information sites (reviews, articles, etc.), but surely make money through advertising. If you mean commercial=e-commerce sites actually selling something, it looks like information sites have been hit just as hard - my sites are all gone, as are many of the information site competitors I monitor.
In regards to whether changing the title works, I think it is too early to tell, but I have tested it with one of my sites, removing kw1 kw2 kw3, and replacing with something like: "otherword otherword otherword kw2 kw3 otherword otherword kw1" on one site, and just removing kw1 kw2 kw3 and replacing with totally different text on another. Hurry up Googlebot!
K4 K5 K1 K2 K3 for the title
My domain is K4 and K5
I ommitted either K4 or K5 AND either K1 K2 or K3 and have a top 2 listing. Of course if I leave the domain Keywords alone and add two of the K1 K2 or K3 keywords, Im looking good again.
ASPdesigner, I stickied you my info if you want to further experiment on your own.
I'll repeat need3lives run with adaptations to my site.
my page title is myname kw1 kw2
kw1 kw2 : #117
kw1 kw2 kw3 : #1
kw4 kw1 kw2 kw5 : #2 indented under one of my pages at #1
kw1 kw3 kw2 : #4
kw1 kw4 kw2 : #1
kw1 kw5 kw2 : #1
kw4 kw5 : #78 (but I have a different page at #17)
kw1 kw2 -asdfg : #4
kw1 kw2 kw3 -asdfg : #1
kw4 kw1 kw2 kw5 -asdfg : #1
kw1 kw3 kw2 -asdfg : #1
kw1 kw4 kw2 -asdfg : #1
kw1 kw5 kw2 -asdfg : #1
kw4 kw5 -asdfg : #83 (but I have a different page at #1)
"kw1 kw2" : #78
"kw1 kw2" -asdfg : #4
allinanchor:"kw1 kw2" : #4
allinanchor:kw1 kw2 : #5
That's enough to convince me that my rightful, unpenalized place in the serps for kw1 kw2 is at #4. Just about anything that narrows the query will make me rise from #4.
FWIW, my page nor site are not selling anything, just an info site that some may consider an authority site. It's maybe 30 months old. The only thing I can see causing the issue is that I use the anchor text "kw1 kw2" on every page of my site to link to this page, and evidently G-sub-florida doesn't dig that.
Page title: "veryuniqueword kw1 & kw2"
kw1 = Nuked (returns 1,000,000 results)
kw2 = Nuked (returns 1,250,000 results)
kw1 kw2 = Nuked (returns 78,000 results)
veryuniqueword kw1 = #1 (+indented)
veryuniqueword kw2 = #1 (+indented)
veryuniqueword kw1 kw2 = #1 (+indented)
kw1 -asdf = #18
kw2 -asdf = #27
kw1 kw2 wordfrombody - #1 (+indented)
All I can say is thank God I'm still showing up under veryuniqueword
What is the definition of commercial vs. information?
I'd say the difference is between competitive (which tend to be commercial) and non-competitive phrases, rather than commercial vs. information sites.
Need3lives - were your information-based sites optimised for competitive phrases that were also targeted by commercial sectors?
All of my sites that have the firm name within the title tag seem unaffected by the change (and I have quite a few sites). If the title tag is 'Firm Name ¦ KW1 KW1 KW3', it seems okay for those keywords, but if it's just 'KW1 KW2 KW3', it's gone.
Also, if any keyword is repeated, it's also gone. It seems like you need to dilute the title tag a bit.
And finally, if I have 'KW1 KW2 KW3', it ranks fine for any two of those keywords, but not all three (unless there's some other text in there.
And really finally, I noticed that many of the title tags on the first results page now are long, supporting the dilution theory.
[edited by: rrl at 5:29 am (utc) on Nov. 26, 2003]
Also, what does allinancher mean?
Ok I did the same thing with keyword -googlegoo and I came up number three. What does all of this mean?
Thanks
Need3lives - were your information-based sites optimised for competitive phrases that were also targeted by commercial sectors?
Not to answer a question, with a question, but I guess I am not clear on what might or might not constitute a competitive phrase - aren't all phrases competitive? I can say my sites are all about consumer products that are frequenty searched for, so I guess that would be considered competitive.
Since you already have 100+ same keyword phase (it is a good thing, don't change it) and it trigger the execution of the algo, how you can make the algo return NEGATIVE instead of POSITIVE? :) Now the algo is going to check your page, and you have the 100% authoring rights on your page!
linear, let's see how your results compare with the tests by Need3Lives and myself -
2-word search, 2 of 2 in title - PENALTY
3-word search, 2 of 3 in title - OK
( 4 examples, and matches with us)
4-word search, 2 of 4 in title - OK
(also matches with us)
2-word search, 0 of 2 in title - OK
Most intriguing is your kw4 kw5 example. It appears your rankings for this LESS RELEVANT (0% title match) phrase actually improved, apparently due to a few more relevant sites above you getting "TRASHED" by the penalty and moving you up a few spots from #83 to #78!
No wonder the SERPs look like trash! More relevant sites are getting "dumped", and sites that are not quite a match are getting boosted!
Your theories work great in many instances. But I am seeing lots of exceptions:
1. I am seeing lots of sites at the top of very competitive areas that are much more optimized than many of the sites that have disappeared - very tightly consistent commercial keywords in title, headings, text and anchor text. I am afraid the theory does not seem to be 100% consistent with the facts.
2. Contrary to what many are saying, many of the sites that have disappeared are information sites with virtually no optimization.
3. Lastly, I am still seeing as many blatantly “spammy” sites as I did before the update.
Perhaps, I am missing something in the analysis, but I would dearly love to understand why 2 years of hard work on a free information site has been punished. The site has unsolicited links from quality sites. It is listed in dmoz.com and is rated one of the best 3 examples of its type on About.com. The site has disappeared while other sites, which are there by virtue of blog/ guest book spam are doing better than ever. I am afraid there is no rational explanation for what is happening!
I am sick of hearing that all the sites that have gone are as a result of spam. It is just not true!
One of my pages is optimized for "Samsung ring tones", but cannot be found with this search string. If I just ad a product name to the search my page will show up in the top 10 search.
Example: Samsung SGH-S300 ring tones
The "SGH-S300" appears just ones i the body.
The site meta looks like this:
------
<title>Samsung ring tones and new polyphonic ring tone download</title>
<meta name="description" content="New Samsung ring tones! Download the latest Samsung polyphonic ring tones to your mobile phone via sms or WAP. Samsung ring tone download available for USA, UK and most of Europe.">
<meta name="keywords" content="samsung ring tones download,samsung ring tones,samsung polyphonic ring tones,samsung,ring tones,download,polyphonic,midi">
------
Any suggestions on how to improve or even get ranked for "samsung ring tones"?
It could be that the sites that you are seeing 'untouched' by the update have yet to disappear. If you check out the Google users forum, you will see that peoples top sites are still disappearing...
Yes, that is a good point. However, my best example of sites that defy explanation has just done the opposite. It has just gone #1 from nowhere.
Well these observations are already made, but could give you a exact axample instead of talking about "widgets".
I also still show up for some combinations of keywords but they are insignificant in terms of visitors.
It was not my site that reappeard but a site with blog links. so much for "improved algos".
Just yesterday 2 of my sites have been dropped from all existence on google.com
if i type in my domain name www.mysite.com, i get sorry no information. What have i done wrong. i use to rank no.1 and no.2 for certain keywords.
Have they been penalised.
Please reply
Don't tell me, your listings have been replaced with an off-topic message board, blog or a .gov site which doesn't even contain the keyword?
does not seem to be 100% consistent
As I said where I posted this discovery, there are also other factors at play here.
We can only look at specific sites and look for a pattern, and where we find sites that differ from the norm, try to discern what is different about those sites.
2. Contrary to what many are saying, many of the sites that have disappeared are information sites with virtually no optimization.
Correct. The argument that it must be only "commercial" sites is a red herring. And, as you point out, many non-optimized sites are getting caught up in this as well.
...information site...has unsolicited links from quality sites...listed in dmoz.com...rated one of the best 3 examples of its type on About.com...The site has disappeared...I am afraid there is no rational explanation for what is happening!
Out of curiousity - out of the most popular search phrases that you USED to be listed well under and now have dropped out of sight - how many of those search words are present in your title?
If your site has reappeared at no. 1 from nowhere, it sort of reassures me that this update is far from over, that yours was one of the first to be reindexed.
I agree with this point, Google couldn't possibly intend these results to be the final index.
Your title seems to indicate that you are a highly relevant site for that search.
Which means that Google now hates you. ;) j/k
Notice that the first three words of your title is an exact match for the search phrase. (which makes sense, as that's what your site is about!)
Your site is just too good a result - bye, bye!
But let's try an experiment.
Take out one of the matching words, and let's replace it with something that is NOT in your title, but happens to be in your body - Samsung ring MIDI
Wow, look who just went from nowhere to #2!
