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Anyone else with losses please post like to get an idea of simliarities
Most of the anchor text backlinks are for the plural, as the Co. name includes the plural keyphrase. Still nowhere to be seen for the plural version, but the singular is riding high.
Trouble is, nobody searches for the singular, it's a product that is always referred to with the plural.
I know GG rambled something about this issue somewhere in the threads but no idea where it is.
From this I can only theorise that there is a filter, busily filtering over optimisation on a certain keyphrase, because the singular keyphrase is mentioned only a couple of times on the index, whereas the plural is all over the place and in anchor text.
Anyone seeing this in their SERPs. do check if you haven't already and let us know the results.
First, there are the people who lost major rankings because they held high positions for "popular" money words (kackle and aspdesigner and others).
It displays the pre-florida results.
To me it appears the search function does not work properly.
Am I mistaken if I say that this search should return only pages that match either term? Or, is the search function not working properly.
Note: the keyword phrase is placed in the search with the quotation marks around it & there is a whitespace between the last " mark and the word March
"Gulfport Hotels" March
I posted earlier in this thread an observation related to unsuspected sources of duplicate content:
[webmasterworld.com...]
(see message #53)
I would really, really appreciate feedback on this post...
'"blue widgets"'
'blue widgets -asdf'
'allinanchor:blue widgets'
There is a lot of information in this thread, but I for one will be anxiously awaiting this updates namesake: the Florida PubConference [webmasterworld.com]. Should be REALLY eye opening to be able to discuss all of this stuff one on one. Everyone bring their notes and stats!
Such as Kackle making the ludicrous statement that up until this point Google's scoring algo had been largely determined by pagerank.
Any meaningful discussion cannot be based on a premise so far removed from reality.
Welcome to WebmasterWorld Trawler :) - i think you'll benefit by winding back to page 15 and doing the suggested exercise in the boxed quote of message #213
Case example, subpage: Query: blue widgets
Rank for query before Florida: #2 of 2.1 million
Rank for query after Florida: #2 of 3.1 million
Page title: "red and blue widgets - from my site"
H1: "red and blue widgets"
H2: two times including "widgets" one time including "blue"
Incoming anchortext: "red and blue widgets" (google shows 16, all internal, identical)
Meta tags: both keywords and description with combinations of KWs
No. of "blue" on page: 21
No. of "widgets" on page: 11
No. of "blue widgets" on page: 3
KW density: 12% "blue", 6% "widgets", 8% "blue widgets" (ignoring words <4 chars and stopwords)
Filename: domain.tld/folder/blwidgets.htm
Filesize: 14Kb (html only)
HTML: Validated HTML 4.1 Transitional
CSS: Validated external CSS stylesheet
Hidden text, links, other "tricks": none
Bold text, italics: not used
JavaScript links: none
Page links to Google: no
Page links to Teletubbies, Microsoft, other hotshots: not really
Page links to external on-topic sites, even competitors: yes
Reciprocal links: one, to another of my sites
Link color: default, ie. blue for me
Font: Verdana/arial/sans-serif
Images: 1 (background)
Toolbar PR: 4
Total time spent working on content for this one page: some weeks, spread across 4 years
Total time spent working on backlinks for this one page: 1-2 hours in 4 years (internal only)
Longest period with no update of content: perhaps 3 months
Page changed during or after Florida: no
This illustration is not a front page, it's a deeper page - there are currently no AdWords on that SERP page either. Some might say that then it's not relevant. I chose this page because it has the largest number of competing pages in the SERPS for keyphrases that return pages from that site. The term "blue widgets" is really an official industry term, it's a product/service used by other businesses. No, it's not SEO ;)
The information supplied above shows that it is an optimized page, but a relatively clean/sober one. As it links to external sites and only has internal incoming, some might even say it was a PR leak (i disagree, as usual). Note that in spite of optimization, the only thing that has changed after "Florida" is a 50% increase of found pages for that keyphrase.
This tells me two things:
1) As a general anti-SEO rule would have catched that page also, there is no general anti-SEO rule.
2) The real difference after "Florida" is the number of pages found for a query - the match is broader.
<just kidding>
A few weeks before Florida, i changed the link color from a darker blue to the default color chosen by the browser, this might be the reason i was not dropped - googlebot might favour pages that will let it use its preferred link color. Also, i use only one image so googlebot won't have to download a lot of them before it can read the text.
</end kidding>
Also, i'd like to add that this quote suits the above box perfectly fine:
That post at first read sounds only like "how can I do better in rankings for this particular phrase?", without mentioning underlying quality or site utility at all. Instead, they're comparing backlink counts and asking how the keyword should be in the domain, etc.(Google SEO longterm, msg. #169 [webmasterworld.com])
That is... these technicalities do not make a good page - the reason this page ranks good is not any of these technicalities, it is the unique content. I do believe i could make a page that had the exact same technical conditions, only it would not rank anywhere near the top. In fact, it would be quite easy to make one that Google would not even index.
I think that it's a good idea to study the pages that do rank well, and see what it is that they do so well.
/claus
No. I can show you lots of sites with little original content that rank highly and some with thousands of pages of orignal content that do not.
Case example, subpage: Query: kw1 kw2Rank for query before Florida: #35 of 500k(ish-don't have my TARDIS handy)
Rank for query after Florida: #2 of 727kPage title: "myname * kw1 kw2"
H1: "kw3 kw1 kw2"
H2: three times: "new kw1 kw2a page format" "kw3 kw2 kw1 articles by category" "kw3 kw2 kw1 and kw2 articles by date"
Incoming anchortext: "kw1 kw2" (mostly from my own site navbar) plus a lot of misc.
Meta tags: both keywords and description with kws included but no special emphasis
No. of "kw1" on page: 63
No. of "kw2" on page: 67
No. of "kw1 kw2" on page: 6
KW density: 5% "kw1", 5% "kw2", 5% "kw1 kw2" 5%
Filename: domain.tld/kw2/index.php (linked as /kw2/ internally)
Filesize: 14.7Kb (html only)
HTML: Validated HTML 4.01 Transitional
CSS: Validated external CSS stylesheet
Hidden text, links, other "tricks": none
Bold text, italics: one foreign phrase italicized
JavaScript links: none
Page links to Google: no
Page links to Teletubbies, Microsoft, other hotshots: none
Page links to external on-topic sites, even competitors: none
Reciprocal links: none, all links are internal
Link color: blue
Font: Verdana/arial/sans-serif
Images: 1 (logo)
Toolbar PR: 5Total time spent working on content for this one page: some weeks, spread across 2.5 years
Total time spent working on backlinks for this one page: 1-2 hours in 4 years (some external link dev, mainly from my friends' similarly themed sites)
Longest period with no update of content: perhaps 3 months
Page changed during or after Florida: -110 positions for kw1 kw2 +5 for kw1 kw2ing
Some additional minutiae: this is a popular entry page for my site, way above / as an entry page. It's an index of articles on a topic that "kw1 kw2" describes most concisely (kw1 and kw2 are monosyllabic).
I think there's a penalty yes. I return this page #4 for kw1 kw2 -asdfg. I don't think the penalty is for SEO.
Could someone please explain this to me please.
When I search for widget insurance my page is dropped.
When I search for allinanchor:widget insurance the page is at #3
When I search for allintext:widget insurance the page is at #3
When I search for -wysdtdd widget insurance the page is at #3
In each case when I select the directory tab and Google does the same search in the directory the results on page one (I've not checked past there) are exactly the same as the web search results.
The directory category when I search for widget insurance is not one of the 5 that are returned when I search for widget insurance on DMOZ.
I was getting excited that maybe someone had stumbled on the trigger and that the key was anchor text but the search on allintext removed that glimmer of hope.
Regards
Sid
PS When I click on the image tab I see that Google still wants folks to help themselves to my images of widgets. I have two widget oics in the top 40 ;-)
it shows which domains have been dropped for certain keyword terms over the last couple of weeks
[****.com...]
have fun,
i will continue crying now...
How bizare.. One site I look after which makes "blue widgets" and has dissapeared from the SERPS for "blue widgets" does actually re-appear if I search for "blue widgets -flibble" ( where 'flibble' really is any arbitrary string)
Anyone else see the same?
That's where you belong but for the new filter :(
Arun
I can also add to the plural debate, we still rank for kw1 kw2 kw3 (kw3 plural) - which is featured only ONCE on the main page and not in the title, but dropped out of site for kw1 kw2 kw3 (kw3 singular) - which is in the title and several times in the body. That makes a LOT of sense to me?
All the ways to not trigger the filter mentioned return all our terms back to the first page - not SERPS Syberia as someone so aptly put it. I can only see one site that is the same whether the filter is triggered or not.
I'll also add to the X-Files Adword hysteria, we too dropped out of sight for the terms we have Adwords for :) The fact the filter causes the drop doesn't lead me to believe this theory, but it is fun!
karembeu
It was my only page to be affected..all my other links stayed the same..but they are shifting daily..some good some not so good.
My traffic has been reduced by about 20%.
Does anyone have a page which:
a) has a high percentage of inbound links containing identical text and which has moved up in the SERPS?
Yes. One of our client has over 100 one way links from different sites with identical anchor text. The site not only has remained rock solid stable but has started ranking for other highly competetive terms.
But in general all other sites I know in competetive categories have suffered some rankings including index page drop. HTH
"I think that it's a good idea to study the pages that do rank well, and see what it is that they do so well."
I have been using that very handy tool mentioned earlier in this thread since yesterday. The industry I'm in has to do with real estate in a particular geographical area. I have one main KW phrase and around 13 secondary phrases. I was really surprised to see that on average, 90 of the pre-Florida sites were no longer in the top 100 after the update for my KW phrases. If Google is targeting certain competitive KW phrases, no doubt "real estate" is one of them.
One of the unique things about my industry is that very few sites that specialize in local home sales have been seo'ed. The vast majority of sites are template sites and the content is added by the real estate agent. The average real estate agent purchases a template site because it looks pretty and never in their career will know what SEO stands for.
I was really surprised to see that 90% of the top 100 sites like these were replaced after Florida. Many sites had good content about the communities the agents served and a KW density in the 1-4% range, no Hx tags, really nothing I could see that should trip a filter. I guess what I draw from this is that if you are in a field that has competitive KW term anywhere in the phrase, such as "real estate", there is a high probability that you are going to get pounded by Google for being a "natural" site with good content.
Two final notes, the post Florida results for these phrases are cr*p when it comes to relevance. And finally, I still am finding some highly optimized sites with four word KW phrases repeated twice in the title tag, repeated multiple times in H text, all over the body in very high density as well as alt tags, nearly all inbound links containing the phrase etc. holding #1 positions for that term. It's rare, but it's like Florida just passed these sites by.
I am new here in this forum and very new at SEO and all that stuff...
Self taught if you can call it that...
We lost the one and only valuable page we had.
Anyway, it seems in other discussion boards that G may have applied a commercial filter of some sort for some reason...
Here is what I have gathered... but dont know how to fix it...
Type in your single keyword for a search and add a space and type in -gobbledygook and hit search and you should effectively see the old page with you on it as you used to
If anyone has anymore please share.
It seems as though the filter is there for only the 1 keyword optimization.
If you have properly optimized your site for more than one word like two words or phrases... since a regular 1 word search returns garbage... people will be forced to be more specific and hence... you get more qualified traffic
Good luck all... I have been in a total state of confusion since this happened on the 16th - Holiday sales plan is down the sewer...
ARC
[edited by: Arctrust at 6:08 pm (utc) on Nov. 27, 2003]
At least in my sector, the results look terrible. The sites that show in the serps are barely relevant. The whole point of Google is to use its algo to return the most relevant results possible. If Google stays on this path, regardless of motivation, it will work itself into irrelevance. Without relevant results, what's the point?
Does anyone think that I should remove all of the keywords on my index page and redesign my index page. I am still number one or two for inside pages for other search terms that have to do with my subject. This is really hurting me because my income has been cut in half. I do realize that I am not the only one affected by this and I feel bad for everybody who has been. I just do not know what to do.
When I search for that term now I get a lot of message boards, amazon books or just individual articles from news stations or professional journals.
Also, if I e-mail Google will they answer me. What is the e-mail address for google? I do realize that they probably do not really care about me, but I was just wondering if they even answer e-mails and would give me an idea of what may be wrong with my site. Am I being naive? :)
Thanks
[edited by: Iluvlabs at 5:44 pm (utc) on Nov. 27, 2003]
I asked a couple of days ago whether Google have always tracked outbound links...
[webmasterworld.com...]
... apparantly they do from time to time.. as they are at the moment.. which leads me to wonder that they must have know that this filter ( or whatever it is ) was going to make quite an impact - and are probably keeping a very close eye on which results are getting the clickthru's now they have all been jumbled up....
Let's just hope they don't conclude that they've done the right thing ;)
Lucky they were all works sites and none of my personal ones ;)
"I was wondering if anyone feels as though I should go and change everything on my index page."
FWIW I'm not changing a thing until I see at least one more dance. I really believe Google will go back to an algo similar to the pre-Florida results. Google became the most dominate engine ever as a result of relevant results. These results are junk. Making major changes now, before we know for sure if this is a filter, a glitch, or a combination of both would be a big mistake. Furthermore, removing keywords from your pages may make your site less usefull to surfers and hurt you in other engines.
Agreed. Right now there is no difference between Google, Inktomi, and Altavista. I've never been able to say that before.
If I were Google, I'd want to know how the click-through percentages for unpaid listings vs adwords listings has changed pre and post-florida. I wonder if they had the same tracking in place before Florida?
Just some of my own observations:
I feel very fortunate with Florida. I had NO effect during Dominic when everyone else was all paniced. I had some sites drop back around Esmerelda and I was interested in the semi-penalty discussions back then, with missing index pages, but no one ever came up with a clear answer. Some of the pages never really came back, and others seemed to come back slowly.
With Florida, I've had a few pages (and sites) completely disappear. Lucky for me, most that got dropped are not financially important to me, or are for clients that aren't paying me. I really am having a hard time figuring out why those pages were dropped and not others. I still think (since the semi-penalty threads) that it is some type of overoptimization penalty (as most people are thinking now). I believe they backed off of it back then because of all of the flack. This time they haven't backed off (yet?). As for the issues that are involved in this penalty, for me, I think it has to do with similar anchor text, possibly when it is from more than one page on the same site (as in a part of the site navigation).
The one really interesting thing I've found is one totally "white hat" site in a fairly competitive market I follow that is gone and it's a big holiday item. The owners don't do any SEO that I've seen - the penalized phrase isn't in the title, isn't in meta tags, they don't even use header tags, but they are number one for allinanchor: widget gifts
Gone from the listings. I did a "not satisfied with your results" report a few days ago, but that site is still missing. I actually feel sorry for them before the holiday season. They may have gotten hit for some sort of duplicate content filter though as they don't have any internal anchor text for the keywords.
