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There've been some hiccups and *disasters*, but it seems that Google is getting itself into a rythym.
Fresh behavior seems to be a bit off, but it's improving. I had an index page problem post Esmerelda (a young site, it fit Napoleon's profile of the problem), but happily with the last few fresh dates the problem seems to be 'getting resolved' by the people at the Big G. I am, however, getting less fresh dates than the sites for my older more established competitors.
The New Algo
Is there in fact a new algo? It seems that something has been tweaked.
Our main site was regularily beat to the top 'o the heap by spammers - now we're at the top, but the spammers are still there, dominating the remaining spots. Has anyone else seen this? Perhaps Google has opted to punish rather than penalize some types of spammers. The sites that I deem as spammers are simply providing hidden (but relevant) links and text; they are otherwise fairly well optimised.
So, we could just be ranking better due to a tweak of some algo factor, or there could be some sort of spam-filter at work here. Thoughts?
Backlinks
I have some new as-yet-unlisted backlinks that I received during Esmerelda (my first with really good anchor text). These are still not listed for my site - they are from a PR5 page that exists in Google and is cacheed in Google with the new links etc.
It seems that the bots are coming around to what will be the 'rolling update', but we have yet to see when backlinks and pr will be updated.
As for the spam filters that GG hinted at, maybe they are in place as I described above, or maybe there is a new aspect to the algo that I am not seeing (a change in weight of factors perhaps?)
Love to hear what fact-based observations others may have about all of this.
Our main site was regularily beat to the top 'o the heap by spammers - now we're at the top, but the spammers are still there, dominating the remaining spots.
These guys are 'older and more established', meaning that they have more backlinks. If they aren't being 'punished' - i.e. somehow devalued - then maybe on page is worth more than off page for now.
This though could go into a circle as they are spamming. The sites are optimised besides the spam, so maybe Google has developed a blind eye for hidden links & text...?
As far as on page and off page factors go always thought google preferred keyword rich inbound links over other variables :)
The sites are optimised besides the spam, so maybe Google has developed a blind eye for hidden links & text...?
I am seeing the same.
With regard to links, if I check links through Google on Alexa, I find all the links that I had prior to Dominic, while I still see about a 1/3 of these links using the toolbar. At least I know Google sees the links.
Getting freshed every single day for a week or two now. Used to be fresh tagged every other day.
Hmm.. Wish I could say the same. We used to get freshed more pre-Dominic. We would often be the only ones getting freshed in our serps, now, we're the only ones not getting freshed!
jd
jd
That one is the one with a bit more optimisation done on it.
Scary, no?
Keeping in mind that all of the sites I watch are new in the last six months, they have all been 'optimised', nothing in the realm of spam or bleeding edge. Just simple 'what's good for the user' type stuff. Some similar title and meta-description tags which I believed was mentioned in another thread...
At any rate, they have all recieved only two or three fresh dates in the last ten days.
Just to confirm listing for a large number of my clients.
Fresh tags daily for the last couple of weeks for most sites and it appears to be fresh tags only for sites that are regularly updated or with new added content.
Regards
EW
Thanks. Are these clients on virtual hosting or do they each have their own IP?
I have a group of clients that are at the same IP and have only had three fresh tags since the 5th. They are all <5 months old, so that could be it as well...
never ceases to amaze me ... don't you people have lives or is this the G dance observers club?
I remember <strokes chin ala' letterman> when AV and infoseek (who? ... I hear you ask ... you impertinent young whippersnappers!) would update ... GAWD! You could hear the cries of anguish on jimworld and newsgroups (WebmasterWorld was but a glimmer in Bretts eye).
My point? My basic SEO stratgy hasn't changed from the day and I mean the day ... I went live ... and guess what ... still in the top 10 (xd fingers).
Go get some vitamin D exposure people ...
Cheers and Hooroo
JP
Well, I guess thatīs good to know. Iīm understanding more and more with google that age matters.
They are making some significant changes though, thought it would be good to at least keep an eye on whatīs happening... Though I suppose you may have a point - in the end google is trying to work for sites that comply with their TOS, no? So while they change just keep doing what is supposed to work and one day we may all get lucky!
Gee sorry ... didn't mean to come across so grouchy ;-)
it's just that I used to worry like crazy about the (then) leading SE algos when they changed, along with the rest of the SE watchers (SEO wasn't even a term or recognised industry then ...) back in the "good old days" when AV, Excite, Infoseek, Ink, et al' were the SE kings.
Sometimes I'd be the top 10 (literally) for target search combo.s and next update, nada, zilch, zip, totally gone from the index.
I eventually learned/realized/had confirmed by others more experienced, that as long as I had the page content (which is king ... remember) with appropriate <title>, <meta-keywords> and <meta-description>, the SE rankings took care of themselves.
I watch forums such as these, but I don't endlessly tweak and resubmit ... got more interesting things to do <grin> ... 'scuse me ... time to go for a walk in the rainforest beneath a gloriously cloudless blue sunny sky ... sigh ... life's tough init?
Cheers
JP
Gee sorry ... didn't mean to come across so grouchy ;-)
Don't worry, it was like a quiet wake up call ;-]
I've been working on more content for our site rather than worry too much lately, however there is something going on in our serps and I wanted to stay on top of things - that and the usual 'lets look seriously at the algo' thread post-Esmerelda was missing the 'serious'.
I eventually learned/realized/had confirmed by others more experienced, that as long as I had the page content (which is king ... remember) with appropriate <title>, <meta-keywords> and <meta-description>, the SE rankings took care of themselves.
This is totally true for me - though some of the competition is catching on :/
Anyway, I'm just curious as to why we've moved to #1 from #3 without changing a thing. In all honesty, based on what I've learnt here, I thought that we should be #1 (I know that sounds silly), and now we are, but why? What did our competition have that we didn't? What has changed at Google to make this happen?
Now, off to finish that new content... (right, and spend some time outside in the sweltering heat)
All on Virtual Hosting
EW
Didn't think that'd be the reason, just re-read Brett's 26 days article and he mentioned "no virtual hosting - get your own IP" and that got me to thinking...
The index seems to be quite stable, the in-and-out-of-the-index thing appears to be fixed. Still, for my main site, the results are changing at the moment. Climbed up from #16 yesterday to #13 today and now #9 on the fi index. However, no changes have been made to the web site. So there still seems to be some algo tweaking going on.
What still seems to be a real problem is spam - redirects, cloaking, guestbooks. These things still work. While it might be hard to go after professional cloaking, I donīt see why guestbook links and simple redirects are not filtered out at all. For my main keywords, the results one the first pages are 80% to 90% spam. Not a good thing if you want to stay the number one SE on the planet, IMO.
What about those new thoeries? For what Iīve seen so far, the "over-optimization-penalty" theory is wrong. In crazy times, wild theories are born - but now that the dust cleares, I canīt see much evidence for this theory.
Any other thoughts?
It seems that body text is more important than title and metas. And there's still spam and 404 pages in the top serps, so they still need to get that spam filter running. For two-keyword searches, any four relevant combinations of the three words "widget", "and", and "gadget" still yield four different results.
As to the re-ranking patent i mentioned in another thread, i do see some signs, but i wouldn't conclude on that yet, as the signs could also be caused by other factors. Over-optimisation penalty? don't know about that, i'd categorize it as part of the (obviously un-existing or un-optimized) spam filter.
OT: Apart from that i prefer the beach as we don't have those beautiful rainforests up here.. no stingers or gators either ;)
/claus
Maybe we can focus a little on the topic of this thread again
Subject - Interesting bot behavior, what about the Algo?
Sudden,
Let me share with you what I think jpalmer was getting at:
I think jpalmer was reflecting what many of the seniors on this board may be thinking.
Now, I started this thread, cause I am seeing some changes in the algo:
But the people who've been at it a while seem to think (judging by their silence) that nothing major has really happened.
Furthermore, judging by your message - and many of the other thread topics here in this forum - the idea of the 'status of what works with the google algo' is but a mere breeze compared with the torment of spam-guestbooks-cheating-etc. i.e. - all that violates the Google TOS but seems to work on Google.
So for my part I think it's time to do what jpalmer is saying - get outside, watch the Tour, build content etc. Cause we can't actually do anything about Google.
Anyway, Google is aware that there serps aren't perfect - they are working on it (if they aren't then we're a bunch of suckers ;-/ ) - For now, we can go on building pages hoping that Google can eventually enforce their TOS.
[edited by: mipapage at 12:39 pm (utc) on July 17, 2003]
I agree with everything you posted, based on what I have seen.
It seems that body text is more important than title and metas.
I'm seeing the same. The serps even seem to exactly reflect the 'allintext: my search phrase'. What gets me though is that there are some serious spammers below me in the serps. This gets me to thinking - rather bold of Google just to throw up what are essentially 'text' results, no?
If that is what is in fact happening, they must have changed something in the algo. I have hidden text spammers below me, so what in the world could Googe be considering as 'text' then? I suppose this does lead to the over a certain % keyword theory, among other things...
Hmm... <off to check spammers sites...>
/claus
<edit>second thoughts: mostly the css part, i'd say</edit>
I have not much more to add, I just wanted to share how I see the new Google Algo and confirm your observation - *something* is going on. I am not experienced enough to tell you what it is.
mostly the css part, i'd say
Most of their stuff is inline css. Well, all of it, with one case of 'top o' the page' css (what's that called again?)
Anyway, I'm not sure my theory holds up anymore. The first result, when I view Google's cache, gives me the 'These terms only appear in links pointing to this page:' msg on an allintext search (this is weird, no?).
Their webpage itself is all flash, with a large commented section full of relevant text that I suppose is for accessibility or something. This beats us for an 'allintext' search.
I'm stumped.
It's a flash site, and relevant text.. seems like it's right on that very thin line. Accessibility for users, no: Try running it through a Lynx browser, comment text is for internal purposes and should not be rendered by user agents. Accessibility for SEs, yes. Would have been nicer with a clean html version though.
/claus
