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Due to an certain internal structure I have all the outgoing links in a directory style as follows:
[mysite.com...]
Will Google follow the link to: "theirsite.com"?
so that also "theirsite.com" is credited for getting a link from me?
Secondly will i have problem with disallowing all spiders to the cgi-bin in my robots.txt?
In reality, the crawlers only pick-up the and don't need the perl script for this, or am I also wrong in this?
Greetings,
Thanks Brett,
and what about my robots file, I can keep it as to dissalow all spiders access to the Cgui-Bin?
Thanks
oursite.com/deref.php?url=http://theirsite.com
I have deref.php in robots.txt. And I used nocache, nofollow (which actually shouldn't play a role) in the dereferring page. I even make a meta-refresh to the next page.
However I found out this update, that google still counts these links as votes (and transfers PR) to theirsite.com. (they are found through link:theirsite.com in google)
I will take deref out of the robots.txt and see if that will have any other effect...
Thanks for the replies, I feel a liitle better now, as the sites I am talking about are normally sites that also link to me and wanting to be fair, I want the search engines to pick up these links and also Google to credit the site with a backward link.
So I will keep the linking the way it is.
Being a new site, I can not check yet if these links have been picked up or not.
Think I will have to wait till the next update for this or for GoogleGuy to walk along and confirm that this is OK.
Greetings,
302 redirect don't pass PR because it stands for 'page moved temporally'.
puzzled
Greetings
If you use 302 then the page with url:
[mysite.com...]
gets your pr.
If you use 301 then the page with url:
[theirsite.com...]
And for Google, the url [theirsite.com...] is not equal to url
[mysite.com...]
That means: If you don't want to transfer PR as well, you may choose 302 redirects in you perl script. I thought you just want to be fair.
puzzled
Yes, I want to transfert the pr to "theirsite.com"
The thing that the perl script does, is tranform the link to a frame consisting of 2 pages, same as about.com, meaning a banner-page of 30 pixels from my site on top and the bottom page of the frame being "theirsite.com".
So how and where do I include a 302, I have about 120,000 such links.
I thought as Brett_Tapke said in the second message that everithing was OK, Google (and others) would find the link and "theirsite.com" would get the PR.
Greetings,
I ask because I've never seen this statement made, and it's a revelation to me. I am interested in ensuring that PR is transferred.
Your second comment has me uh, puzzled. :)
And for Google, the url [theirsite.com...] is not equal to url
[mysite.com...]and seems to contradict the concept of passing PR through. Does the page [theirsite.com...] get the PR? does the mysite.com url get the PR?
Can you further explain the ramification of google not equating the two URLs in relation to SERPS and PR?
Googleguy, I'd love to hear you weigh in on this.
thanks!
> So how and where do I include a 302, I have about 120,000 such links.
In your go.pl script?
bonanza> Puzzled, do you know for a fact that 301 transfers PR while a 302 does not, or is it speculation based on definitions of the 300-level responses?
By own experience, last year I moved a website. Yahoo, Dmoz and many other website linked to [olddmomain.com...] and I had PR 5
I moved to [wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com...] but Yahoo, DMOZ and other websites still linked to the old page. But I wanted to profit from the old linkage so I made a redirection. But wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com only got PR 2-3. After change to 301 redirection, [wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com...] got all PR from [olddmomain.com...]
I could verify this effect with another redirection script. On my main page, I have a 'Link to my main-page'-feature. I place a link to a participant's homepage on my main-page if that page sends me a visitor. That redirection-link looks like [wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com...] which redirects to [particpats-page.com...] that target page get's PR from my main-page when Google happens to deepcrawl. I linked to very low PR websites and they became PR 4! Take www.agroshop.ch and verify it at Google!
puzzled
no it doesn't. but it's simple.
302 (temporaly moved)
---------------------
PR to [mysite.com...]
and NO PR to [theirsite.com...]
For Google, temporaly means that the page [mysite.com...] will be back anytime!
301 (permanent moved)
---------------------
NO PR to [mysite.com...]
but PR to [theirsite.com...]
thanks so much for the detail (and the example).
Here's a related question that's been "puzzling" me. (OK, I'll quit it with the puzzle puns).
Similar to your model where you have other sites referring to you, I give links to my homepage with an ID attached so I know who the referrer is:
[mysite.com?partner=1...]
There are no redirects involved, but does [mysite.com...] get any PR from the referer on that? Or are these two different sites as far as google is concerned?
So what I think I've learned here is that if I do a 301 redirect to the homepage with no parameter after tracking the referral, then the homepage will get the PR. Otherwise I'm just losing my PR to a bunch of phantom homepages.
Will a mod_rewrite accomplish the same?
If you have no redirect, then google will see the two as different pages, and assign individual PR. There have been quite a few "problems" where just that happened.
(It also makes sense, because otherwise google would not be able to honor dynamic pages with individual PR)
>Will a mod_rewrite accomplish the same?
You can do 301 redirects with mod_rewrite. You have to use a [R] at the end of the rewriteRule line.
they are two different pages.
bonanza> So what I think I've learned here is that if I do a 301 redirect to the homepage with no parameter after tracking the referral, then the homepage will get the PR. Otherwise I'm just losing my PR to a bunch of phantom homepages.
that's what I have observed.
puzzled
So, really then, in practical terms, what's the difference between a 301 and a 302 (besides how Google treats it)?
Might browsers or proxy servers behave differently? Are there any side-effects to using a 301 instead of the more common 302?
Here's an example. Might a browser or a proxy server see a 301 "permanent" redirect and cache it with the intention of never hitting the old url again? Where on a 302 since it's temporary, it'll keep trying the old url first.
If that happened, my server wouldn't get the partner=1 parameter any more, defeating the purpose (but giving me the PR where I want it -- tough choice!).
If "redirect.pl" is in robots.txt, what happens to the PageRank that should have gone to it? Does it get swallowed into a PR black hole, or is it redistributed back within the site?
For example, and in more generic terms:
If I have a page with two outgoing links, Google will assign X points out to each. If I disallow one of them via robots.txt, does the other link inherit the PR of the disallowed link, making it have 2X points? Or do this X points just get "dropped"?
This is relevant to wether or not the technique that some people use, and that has been described in the thread, to link to sites without losing PR works at all. It's also relevant to wether it makes sense or not to disallow robots from "secondary" pages like privacy, legal, etc. If google just "drops" the PR from disallowed links, then you are actually loosing a lot of PR by disallowing links to "irrelevant" pages that would, nontheless, redistributed back their PR to other pages within your site, via their navigation links.
This topic is not going in the right deriction I think as we are comparing apples and oranges.
My original question, starting this topic was:
I put my links in the following way:
[mysite.com...]
Same as About.com.
I do NOT redirect, as the link of "theirsite.com" is clearly visible in the link.
In the example of Puzzled the link is not visible and Google can not pick up the link by crawling the page, as the link is in a Database:
[wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com...]
So this are 2 different matters
I do not hide the link and Google can see and pickup the link from the page when the robot comes along.
In the second example from Puzzled, this is a real redirect and again has nothing todo with my example.
Puzzled redirects from:
[olddmomain.com...]
to
[wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com...]
meaning 2 complete different sites.
What my perl script does is making a frame with a small top banner like about.com and the "theirsite.com" in the main frame, even including a remove-frame option to remove my small topframe if they feel like removing.
This is what Google sees:
[mysite.com...]
so does "theirsite.com" get the PR or Not?
And why should I add a redirect in the perl script, the action is happening when the Google bot is visiting the page and sucking up the URL from "theirsite.com".
The Perl script is and will never be used by Google, it is only used by the user that clicks the link.
Greetings,
I understand that Googlebot will pick up a URL from anywhere in the page, and not only from a standard anchor. I have no idea what it will do with your url format. My guess is that it will consider that URL as a whole, and not parse it into two (one internal, and the external expressed as a parameter) If that's the case, no, no PR is transfered to the destination site. But the PR *is* being pointed to a disallowed page though, and what happens to that PR then, I do not know. That's what my ramblings are about in my previous email.
I wouldn't assume that just because the URL is visible in the querystring that Google will consider it at all.
Further, many people have scripts that have the url as a querystring in fact do a redirect. I think we all figured yours did as well.
So your script is the page of a frameset with that URL included as one of the frames? The real question here then, it seems, is how does google handle framesets, and does it pass PR to the framed URLs in a frameset? (I'm guessing no but don't know). Another question is does Google go so far as to examine the querystring of a URL for another URL and assume that it is the ultimate destination and give it PR. (again, I'm guessing no.)
In the second message of this topic, Bret answers that Google does split the URL.
I think Bret knows what he is talking about.
But he doesn't take up the matter of PR
Wish Googleguy would pas atound here,
Greetings,
And Brett didn't say that Google is parsing your url. (and extract a substring which should be meant as a redirection)
puzzled
I'm suggesting that it may be a bit much to ask for it to pull a URL (is it encoded?) from a query string and then follow it to a frame in a frameset.
Yes, it would be great to hear GG opine on this.
One of my link exchange partners use a redirect program for most links on his website and his links back to me is shown as a backlinks. I am happy about that.
See this thread: [webmasterworld.com...]
I don't know for sure, but it implies that location issues a 302 as the 301 requires explicitly adding the code to the header.
Either way, it would be a quick test using the server header checker [searchengineworld.com] tool described in that thread. If I have time this morning, I'll try it out.
I have seen links in my backlinks in the format you are talking about - so if they are picked up as backlinks, i see no reason why PR would not also be passed on (but who knows?)
It would be interesting to know if those inbound links you see are 301's or 302's.
Puzzled here is the Question and the answe from Brett_Tabke from the starting of this message:
Question:
[mysite.com...]
Will Google follow the link to: "theirsite.com"?
Answer from Brett_Tabke:
Yes, it will follow it. Keep the number of parameters under two and make sure to use HTTP in the redirect...
Conclusion:
Parameters are less than 2
HTTP is used before "theirsite.com in the URL
Seems that Brett_Tabke, owner and moderator of this board knows what he is talking about.
Greetings,
I don't think anybody would argue that Googlebot will follow that link. It will because it is a link, not because the destination URL is visible. Googlebot will follow this format link just as well: go.pl?id=1
The next question we're discussing is whether the destination page actually gets a backlink and any PR from the referer.
It seems to matter whether it is done with a 301 permanent redirect vs. a 302 temporary redirect.
You're not using a redirect and therefore, your destination URL is simply the frameset at yoursite.com/go.pl?url=http...
That's the page you see in the browser address bar after you click on it, right?
It would seem to me that your own page is getting the backlink and the PR and not necessarily the page that is loaded in a frame. There's an extra level of separation there.
We're talking about a few different but related things here, but I think they can happily live in the same thread. :)
Brett> Keep the number of parameters under two
With URL [......]
GoogleBot sees 2 &'s -> Decides not to follow the URL above.
If it sees less than 1 & then it may decide to follow your url and go.pl returns a link (including HTTP) back to GoogleBot, GoogleBot again may decide the new target url.
puzzled
