Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Short version:
- Payment went on hold start of august.
- emailed google numerous times. recieved a reply oct 20th 'invalid clicks have been generated and we will review if you continue to get invalid clicks we will suspend your account'. Sent analytics logs to them for help in the investigation.
- Earnings still in my account for August, September and October adding up to nearly 20,000$.
- No reply as of yet.
Server Stats:
500k+ page views day
up to 16k unique ip's per day.
What I've done about it:
I've contacted adsense advisor (I'm ignored), e-mailed adsense-uk, adsense-adclicks, adsense-support... (Ignored) and they just don't seem to care that my business is going down because I'm losing like almost 20k USD in the last months due to 'this invalid clicks' that is being under review forever...
Since July this has just really upset me, made life hard for me, I'm seeing "bankrupt" in my eyes in the next months.
I've tried other sources of income but they just dont work, "or looked great then didnt work out".
Only one thing that keeping me hopefuly this last weeks is I was contacted by a rank 6k alexa site offering to pay money for advertising, we trialed 24 hours at 200$ and now I'm waiting for them to get back to me on a monthly deal if everything worked out the way they hoped.
Now I'm struggling here, upset because I've got too much to live for, and so much to lose if google don't snap up I'm done for.
GP, Goes to cry.
Looks like im going to have to take google to court over the whole ordeal if nothing is done about it.
You're on your own.
Ann
Sticky me if you have any real suggestions and not the 'pack adsense in and run away from it all and get in debt + bankrupt' idea.
You're welcome GP
Makes one feel really good about trying to help you out.
You make it sound like Google has something personal against you, and you know what? I'm starting to feel for Google after reading your rants.
[/advice]
I'm not over yet, If i could copy paste the email they sent me here I could probably recieve real ideas, but at the moment you concider me wrong for coming for you guys for help time after time no advise sent to me actualy worked, if you think I havn't tried, then sticky me and ill tell you in depth the things I've done.
Google wants me to tell them the sources of my traffic, I got a reply back to asking what was going on, 20th oct.
And since then nothing has been done about it, I've not click frauded they say their has been invalid clicks, they need more info about my source of traffic.
Direct Traffic (very high re-peat visitor worth mouth likely)
Google Search
MSN Search
Yahoo Search
What more can be done thats why im asking you guys for advise, not to tell me to 'remove my adsense' and 'why continue to earn on adsense if it wont pay up' because adsense did not tell me that, they are allowing me to make money, just not pay me!
they are allowing me to make money, just not pay me!
When a business partner won't pay what they owe you, be it Google or anyone else, then it is common sense not to do business with them anymore, unless there are extenuating circumstances and you have reason to believe they will pay you at some future date. From everything you have stated, it seems unlikely Google will ever pay you.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 4:21 pm (utc) on Nov. 16, 2006]
If google does in fact find his traffic genuine, then it will be a large account for google. If he is making $20k a month then google is making $20k a month as well. Its not everyday that google gets a $250,000 yearly account.
I feel his pain, he just wants to be updated while google investigates. He knows he is not banned, but google does need to keep in touch with him.
At what point were you stupid enough to first mention lawyer/solicitor or court?
Do you understand what that does to your account and the review process? (at least at every big company that I have ever dealt with)
They put a note on your account and all the papers and send it to the legal department. No one replies to your queries because it has to go through legal at this point.
Just out of curiosity, when you started making the big bucks, did you pay off all your debts and put money away for a rainy day? Have you ever heard of the "6-month rule" for people with an unreliable source of income? Did you assume that this money would continue forever and changed your standard of living to match?
I'm impressed that you were able to build up a site with that sort of traffic. but I'm not impressed in the least with your chosen nym on WW or the way you have decided to deal with this situation. You sure are acting like a greedy player instead of a businessman. I sure hope that your login to your google account is something a little less provoking than your nick here.
You're right, none of us can have a clue how you're feeling. but being rude to people makes us want to empathize a hell of a lot less.
I would have attorneys lined up and ready to go.
That would _at most_ give you the past earnings, but don't expect to make a deal with G anymore.
at most you can cost google some lawyer fees but that's about it. Good luck trying to find a lawyer willing to take on a company that bought Youtube...especially for $20k.
Plus, as BigDave said, what google rep wants to talk to you when you threaten lawsuits? Being nice works better IMO.
If I worked at Google I would probably cancel your account immediately.
I find it had to understand how a company the size of Google cannot provide any means for you to discuss this - present evidence etc - certainly with a sum of money this large and - apparently - someones livelihood at stake. Nevertheless, that seems to be the case. I doubt you will see the £20,000 - your choices would appear to be:
1 wait patiently and hope, or
2 consider legal action.
1 may not work.
2 will not work if Google can demonstrate anywhere that you have breached their Terms of Service - I would guess that few of us can guarantee to be spotless in this respect - even with the best of intentions.
Even if 2 works, I would expect Google to choose not to do business with you in the future.
If your site performs as you say then you should be able to find a means of making some money from it - just don't be GREEDY.
Regards,
GP.
When google asks me to provide them information about the source of traffic, how would you word it if was search engine traffic and traffic that comes back to the site daily.
Just as you did in your question, also include log files, traffic stats ( e.g. - wusage, etc... )
It would be wise to listen to the good responses you've already received in this thread as well.
Peter
Time to put the bins out, Sticky me if you have any real suggestions and not the 'pack adsense in and run away from it all and get in debt + bankrupt' idea.
You have recieved good advice as has been repeatedly stated.
Your argument is with GOOGLE - not members of this forum. We wish you well in your quest, and have given you what advice we can on how to approach Google. You don't seem to want to listen, and that is starting to hack people off.
The ONLY people who can deal with this are Google, and threatening to sue them is really not the best way to get them to reinstate the account. Cooperating with them might, as has been suggested all along.
Nobody wants to see you bankrupt. But we are reaslitic enough to know that the chances of being reinstated are slim. Hence the advice to try and put this behind you and move on to other opportunities. It's good advice.
Google needs to assist in this.
I am taking this from an investor stand point, its bad google business. This is a potential 1/4 of a million dollar account for google. Google needs to allocate the resources and resolve this quickly.
How many of you have 1/4 million dollar a year customers where you would let an issue go more than 90 days? These are the types of things investors do not like reading about. Bad business....
When google asks me to provide them information about the source of traffic, how would you word it if was search engine traffic and traffic that comes back to the site daily.
If there were a lot of money at stake, I think I would word it something like this:
And if I couldn't get a response after a month, I would follow up with further proactive steps.
When Google asked you for information, that was your big opportunity. Unfortunately, it seems like folks in that situation are irresistably drawn into the "but I didn't do anything" mindset, when what's required is the "it doesn't matter whether I did anything wrong; keeping my account requires helping Google eliminate something they don't want to see" mindset.
I for one do not buy the argument that you cant make it anywhere else.
I mean, you could outright sell your own ad space on the site.
If it was me, I would immediately drop all AS ads from my site. You should not be putting it up on your pages if you are in doubt of payment. Do you think Google would let you place ads in adwords if they thought you might not pay them?
Seriously, every piece of advice has been given. There is nothing more you can get out of this or any other forum. Move along..
you could outright sell your own ad space on the site.
Already did that one day and made a good 200$ for 24 hour cpm ads, however that has to be negotiated for long-term and havn't been able to sort anything else out because Where do you go looking? eh, that advertiser came to me.
As far as log files I'm going to do everything in my power.
Peace,
GP.
As far as log files I'm going to do everything in my power
If I am earning that much with AS, I can give them an access to my Hosting Panel to view everything and convinced them that nothing was illegal.
No, unless you create a statistics and advertising details section on your web site, and contact media buyers & advertising companies, there is a section about this in this forum, go read.
Earnings still in my account for August, September and October adding up to nearly 20,000$
I read this as more like $6000/month, so not an amazingly big account. And maybe GP is paying $5000/month in advertising and/or maintenance for the site, so if his earnings halve he could well be making a loss. This is pure speculation, but could help to explain the edginess.
And maybe GP is paying $5000/month in advertising and/or maintenance for the site,
No he's not, only hosting charges, it's all viral.
[the adsense] agreement is a legally binding contract
Well that depends on where you live.
All of those might be reasons for courts around the world to not accept it as a contract.
The problem will be mainly jurisdiction: the contract is between you and Google Inc. (The US company, not the local Google.)
If you have to fight that battle in the US, forget it: you'll never survive to win. If you can take it elsewhere it might work, but it WILL spoil any relation you have left with Google.
Now as others said as soon as you mentioned lawsuit/lawyer/... the other side has no option but to run *everything* they tell you through their legal department, who will act unfriendly and defensive. They are likely to be slow and might even seek external advise in how to work with you.
You said you prvided analytics details (I presume as in Google Analytics), Guess they knew what;s in there already. You didn't provide them with the logs of the webservers themselves?
If you have something that has a viral marketing capability going, you have a number of ways to deal with loss of adsense income, alternative advertisers interested in exposure are one way, but just plainly selling the site+idea is another option if you are really facing bankruptcy.
You seem to have high costs in delivering the service, but I of course don't know details, but perhaps you can avoid bankruptcy without adsense by reviewing and optimizing these costs.
As for stopping serving adsense: I'd provide them with everything I have of information, seek as many alternate sources of income and let the amount build up with the rest of the impressions I have nothing else for. Removing the ads breaks any relation you have left.
Even if you find just one book on your subject, or some related content in e.g. a book, I'd sign up for a amazon associates account and start to sell that book.
Regards,
GP.
BAD NEWS - 1. all revenue was taken away from my business account. apparantly i breeched having two accounts one for business one for normal.
GOOD NEWS - 1. my normal account is back to running order and expect to get a payment in progress soon enough.
Now im not gonna argue anymore... i've lost so much money here today, and i'm not even going to challenge google now.
In my opinion i thought more than one google account was okay provided it was for your business and your personal account are two seperate eneities. how they confused the two is likely because i ran ads from my personal on the url, then changed the url over to my new account and this causing problems in google's brain.
I'm just going to have to face up that my personal account that was frozen is back in business, that whatever left in there is going to be better than seeing it all go out the window.
That I may of lost almost 20,000$ to Google world, but you know what I'm relief that I didnt 'get kicked out of the programme' that I'm going to be strong and that the depression on me of having no account or payment was alot worse than having the money itself.
Regards to those who have been here to give me advise, im sorry i was a total depressed bugger but it was hurting to be in the situation i was in.
Respect to those who have given me help over sticky and personal mail.
20k Down... Google account up.
(Prays for this #*$! to never happen to me)
If you run two accounts one for you and one for 'business name' your going to get totaly ruined like myself.
Peace and love,
GP.
Looking forward to NOT hearing about your $20,000 dollars anymore though - sorry.
Keep doing things things by the book, be patient polite and not too greedy and maybe things will work for you.
[i]In my opinion i thought[/b] more than one google account was okay provided it was for your business and your personal account are two seperate eneities.
That isn't what the terms say, is it?
Whenever I have read about a "two separate account" situation, there have always been things like "with goolge's approval" attached to it.
Heres 'the path of me'
2005 Personal Years:
- Created a site, self-teach sql/php
- Registered as a personal adsenser made a nice 5$+ day up to 200-250$ day > 400-500$ near x-mas.
2006 Business Years:
- January i had ideas.. i saw the idea of becoming more legit.
- Business time. My site no longer a personal site but a business.
- Setup a business account at the bank.
- Saw that you can have business+ personal account on here.
- registered as a business account adsenser, left my personal account alone, did not disable or remove it (may i should of but thought it was okay since google aproved my other account).
- July payment came through, August onwards my payments were on hold.
- after many emails i get a reply oct 20th withheld payments were told to be Account suspected for invalid clicks.
Present Day 17th Nov 2006 (4 days after my birthday):
- Business Account disabled. nearly 20k sent back to advertisers - multiple account as reason of account closures.
- Personal account withheld released. (phew)
- Both accounts suspended. (DAMN!)
All gone, no money , nothing. no adsense, nothing!
To be honest with you i expected this. i knew it was too good to be true
I requested permission for the new business account.
In the past I swapped ads back and forth between the two.. had both running on the same site for months.
Never heard anything from G about it.
