Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
I even started getting good organic traffic and made money on clicks. I kept on uploading 1-2 articles daily for last 2 weeks which I have been doing for last couple of months as well.
Now, I am getting a back-kick from google. Instead of increasing in traffic and clicks I am decreasing. Once again I lost 10 articles out of the non-supplemented results. I never even bought a single link for my site, I don’t do trading with others. I don’t use any black hat tricks to drive the traffic.
What is that I have done wrong now by which I lost some of my organic traffics? I know if I drive in more visitors then I can get more clicks and more money.
Please advise me…
I added 2-3 back links everyday from forums, blogs and community sites
BTW, I have never seen a page go supp from lack of links, or even spammy links. It might rank poorly, but never supplemental. Your troubles are very likely rooted in your titles and meta descrip tags. Look for repeat words or phrases accross multiple pages. At least, thats the first thing to check.
Going supp is much different from the usual 'bad ranking' woes or even penalties like the 30+ and 950.
Title Example:
My Name is Bill Gates
My Name is Brad Pitt
This site is not very old. It doesn't have enough pr to distribute along the pages. That’s why i tried to give a link to my pages from digg.com and more. They kind of helped few pages to get out of supplemental and i don't know why it’s going back in that way again.
not quite blackhat SEO, but it's certainly greyhat
I disagree. Gotta promote your site somehow - if you participate adding quality to forums, blogs, social sites, etc. then whats the problem if you give some self love if those sites allow such things. If Google can spot such links as self serving then certainly they can just simply allow such links to carry no weight. Which could be one thing that has happened. Carried some weight at the beginning then no weight. Now automating such things adding no quality certainly can get into the realm of spam.
But I do have to say that there are other methods of attracting links that will be more beneficial in the long term for the time spent.
Anyway, what you suggest me to do now? Should i concentrate in getting some links to my category pages without a nofollow on it? All that I know is article publishing sites. Do you know something else?
I have never seen a page go supp from lack of links, or even spammy links. It might rank poorly, but never supplemental.
You may not have seen it, but I think you might be incorrect.
why unique contents are Supplemental Result at google [webmasterworld.com]
Ted, can you elaborate?In August 2006, matt cutts made this comment:
...having supplemental results these days is not such a bad thing. In your case, I think it just reflects a lack of pagerank/links...it just a matter of we have to select a smaller number of documents for the web index. If more people were linking to your site, for example, I’d expect more of your pages to be in the main web index.[mattcutts.com...]
At the time it sounded odd to me, because I'd been focused on duplicate urls as a principal cause of supplemental results. But then I realized that a duplicate url is also quite likely to have low PR, so that's one particular case of a much broader phenomenon. Time goes on, and low PR is now almost always what I see in my client's supplemental results.
The preceding quote is Tedster's 2nd post in the thread.
Justin
[edited by: jd01 at 11:40 pm (utc) on Nov. 15, 2007]
You seem to be confusing supplemental with other ranking problems.
My Name is Bill Gates
My Name is Brad Pitt
jd01: Thanx for Ted's post quote. I thought what I was saying here reflected what I've learned from his advice re:supplementals.
I think links have something to do with supplemental results.
Justin
We were posting at the same time...
I think the edits you made about links not helping if there are other issues is a valid point.
<added>
Sorry if I am sounding harsh, but since there are a large number of people who read these threads (in addition to those of us who post), I want to make sure if we are giving advice we are accurate to the best of our knowledge.
Do I think links (or lack of) are the *only* reason a page goes supplemental?
No, but I do know it is a cause, and when Google's main algo is based on links and some pages rank for those searches, even if the terms are generic and/or repetitive, the question I have to ask is what is the difference... and the answer is usually, the 'authority' of the site, which, in my opinion generally includes age, inbound links, age of inbound links, link growth rate, and a few others.
If each of those pages had 500 inbound links accumulated over a 5 year period of time, do you think they would rank? Personally, I do.
</added>
My Name is Bill Gates
My Name is Brad PittIs very repetitive, in my opinion.
IMHO, Those titles look to me like about 40% unique, I would think that would pass pretty well, but like every one else here, it is just IMO, and is worth just what it cost you to get me to say it.
As far as lack of real PR causing supplemental, that is the only real information I am aware of, that anyone from Google has confirmed, so that is where I would point my finger.
WW_Watcher
Buying Widget-1
How to Buy Widget-2
Buying One Widget-3 for My Wife
How to Rent Widget-4
2. I use similar phrases for anchor text
3. All my pages are unique(not auto generated) and targeted to the title.
4. Index page is pr-1 but couple of interior pages got 2 and 3. I don’t know how they got that pr but they are having some nofollow links. They don’t have any non nofollow links.
Date - organic traffic
Nov, 15 - 16
14 - 57
13 - 88
12 - 110
11 - 56
10 - 53
9 - 42
8 - 31
7 - 64
6 - 56
5 - 36
4 - 10
Nov, 3 - 5
Link of my earlier post here while trying to figure out the real problem for getting organic traffic.
You all are here for a long time. I appreciate your help on solving my problem. Please suggest me what I should do to get all my pages out of the supplemented list, I don’t care the SERP ranking as of now. I know few of the long tail searches can feed me something and drive my passion for writing more and more.
Imagine this is your situation and tell me what you would do, what would be your strategy at this point of time. I am scared to take any step from my brain. Please don’t fight or argue, just suggest me couple of things to do.
[edited by: JustKidding at 2:48 am (utc) on Nov. 16, 2007]
Your site is still young - unstable rankings are common in the early months of a website.
What I would probably do is create 'index pages' which are an 'overview' of to 10-15 articles each and design those pages to rank for the terms you target on the inner pages.
By 'design those pages to rank' I mean I would:
SEO the s*** out of them.
Attract links to them.
(Not spam links, but solid directory links, purchased links, or other good solid text links, which are not 'nofollowed' for any reason.)
Continue to grow the site around the topics or 'themes'.
What you will do by building a set of indexes is 'focus' your inbound link weight on a few key pages, which will then pass that weight to the deeper pages and to the home page (if linked properly). This concentration should not only help the index pages rank, but should help deeper 'similar' pages be pulled into the regular index after they have 'aged'.
In many cases it can take quite a while to get a new site to rank, so don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen tomorrow. Keep building, let it age, keep building links, stay away from 'duplicate' or 'near duplicate' content, and make sure your visitors have a good experience when they visit... Word of mouth is still a powerful tool if you provide something useful, and you do not rely on the whims of G to support yourself.
Keep in mind things are becoming more 'pattern based', so you will need to look at visitor behavior, growth rate of the site, inbound link growth rate, age of the page(s) (aka documents), update frequency, etc. as well as making sure you control your internal PageRank distribution and pass weight to the correct pages.
Justin
I think I will try to get more targeted links to my category and sub-category pages and let those pages to distribute the weight to other pages.
Keep on adding 1-2 pages a day.
Might create few pages targeting to integrate couple of other pages and get some links to it.
I won’t be discouraged by any means, it’s not only money to me but also knowledge for future. It will become my experience over the time..
Thanks a lot to everyone.
Before 1 week i checked with "/*" command and noticed that it went up to 99 pages now again it is back to 48. In the mean time i reduced promoting my website; I posted 1-2 articles with 4-5 back links to my site. Google is scaring me, I was able to make $17.00 due to 99 pages in regular index now that i am struggling with $8.00 because of 48 pages. I am not interested to buy any back link as i am scared of google, if it will know about it then it may penalize me.
I got all my category pages running and all other pages are linked from category pages now.
Any Advice?
As tedster said, your site is still young and unstable rankings are common in the early months of a website. I have two relatively newer sites that are almost 2 years old. For the first year, there were major changes in and out of the index, in and out of supplemental. After that first year, it pretty much stabilized. New pages now get indexed right away and aside from the normal flux or Google hiccup, the rankings remain pretty constant for the phrases I watch.
When a new page is first discovered, it's put into the fresh index. It sits in there for about a week and gets a nice rank/traffic bump. After that week, one of two things happens:
1. The page is immediately in the deep index, but traffic/ranking is lower, although it would rank at the "natural" (non-fresh index inflated) rank.
2. The page (or updated content) disappears for a period of time (few weeks to a month) until it hits the deep index and/or certain "let out of the sandbox" type filters are tripped.
I have only observed this overall general behavior for one site I'm working on, and I might not have the details exactly right since I observed it in hindsight. It's very characteristic of the pre-everflux google.
All my articles are unique and written to help people. They are well optimized for few keywords. Those pages do well till it stays in regular index; it doesn't give me any referrals once it goes supplemental(other than few long tails). I personally believe my pages are being supplemental for not having enough juice in the domain or else they are unique, different from rest of the site, unique title and description. They are well optimized but still can't remain for a long time in regular index. I have seen a url was getting 60% referrals and one morning that went supplemental which made me mad. Then i got few back links from here and there and again it's back in track and doing the similar job.
I don't even think it's wise not to do a little one-way link building for a site as it is new. I will try to get some one-way links but don't know what is that limit which can flag google for spamming. That bothers me..
Anyway, you guys are gr8. I am new but i work a lot on my site and learn from my own mistakes. Please keep advising me to make successful website.
I also agree with the idea that PR matters in this case. So my question for you is:
Did you well control your PR flow? for example, nofollow the unimportant or blocked pages?
I think that you should look at SEOmoz.org, they are a great example of how to control the PR flow.
Cheers.
They heavily crawl the suppl. results but don't release them from the suppl. index.
I need to go ahead and buy a view PR6 and PR7 links from a text link broker. Since google so heavily relies on PR for their supplemental index there is no other choice.
They simply force people into buying links.
Additionally they hide their failure by removing the "supplemental tag".
Maybe they are concerned about their stock because some smart journalists could discover that all the billions of URLs in their index are not real because 80%-90% of them sit in the supplemental index, are compressed and not worth the hard disc space they are saved on.
Although internal linking can offset this issue; i.e: two similarly titled pages crosslinked.
I got few links from article sites by writing unique articles for them.
That's spamming! Article sites are spam link farms. A time is coming, or is already here, when Google's researchers learn about article sites used to generate unnatural links, supposedly endorsements from other sites ("link votes") when those links are actually created by the person wanting the link, not an independent site, i.e., 100% artificial.
Google will figure out which sites are article link farms using the same type of link abuse reporting procedure it uses for paid link farms, and those article sites will be useless for link juice.
Your experience could be an early sign that Google has started cracking down on article sites, something many people expected a long time ago, but like most Google crackdowns, starts late.
p/g
That's spamming! Article sites are spam link farms.
Are you sure? I have seen a number of websites that succeeded with links from free article sites.
SEOPTI:
You are right, google is forcing to buy links and it’s against it as well. I have seen few similar title pages of a site went to supplemental index but came out of it once I improved the link structure internally to give some juice to it.
potentialgeek:
The way you and google define the title just bothers me. Suppose I have a site on gadget reviews then I will personally think to create many titles as gadget1 review, gadget2 summary, gadget3 analysis which max people will search for. Honestly I would create only gadget1 review, gadget2 review if I would never think about SEO.
If you think a page should be supplemented on titles then it’s wrong, a page should actually be supplemented on duplicate title and description or similar page content to other pages. It should never be supplemented on similar titles and lower pr.
I don’t want to spend a second on trying to tell what my page is all about to google. I am doing it because google is not smart enough to decide the strength of a page from my average page views by users, bounce rate and rest of the valuable information like k-map and seeding to find the keywords. I am taking equal time in promoting my site after creating nice unique contents also. I hate it but can’t help it.
For similar page title if you see ehow.com, they have tons of pages starting with how to and comments on how to. What google should do in that way, it should dump all of their pages in supplemental index. It should see the pattern and give less value on those keywords not that it should push it supplemental list.
[edited by: JustKidding at 5:33 pm (utc) on Nov. 30, 2007]
I am taking equal time in promoting my site after creating nice unique contents also.
This is not different from most offline business, is it? Then at a certain point, any business reaches critical mass and the proportion of time can shift, since there is now strong brand recognition and developed users loyalty.
of course you can wait 2 years for a site to get some natural links and natural rankings
...
but Google is chaning daily, who the heck can wait years for natural links if you rely on SEO as primary income?
This is all bull#%$&!
If this trend continues within 4 days I will have 99% of my URLs in the supplemental index.
Well done Google, your algo is broken.
[edited by: SEOPTI at 9:44 pm (utc) on Dec. 1, 2007]
I'm seeing a huge increase in supplementals across all of my sites.
