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PageRank Update - Jan 2007

   
2:48 am on Jan 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Google PageRank appears to be changing - has anyone noticed their Google PageRank changing? For the last 2 days my PageRank appears to be dropping by 1 but then at other times, it appears as the same as it's been for the past 2 months.

I've checked other places and they say the old PageRank but maybe we're on the verge of another PageRank change?

Anyone notice this?

8:06 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



My two main domains didn't change PR - still PR5 and PR6 respectivley.

But two of my satelite domains lost some PR (from PR4 to PR3)despite the same/ similar number in backlinks.

8:20 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I have several sites. Two of them went to PR0. On of my sites that in early October went from getting 100 distincts a day to getting 1500 distincts a day at a minimum. Some days I get 20,000+ distincts. Looking at my site reports I know I gained 500+ backlinks during the past 3 months. The thing is google is only showing 90, and of those 90 80 of them are from one blog that added my site to his role.

I think the backlinks update is stable somehow now in google datacenters. But it's obviously that the snapshot of the toolbar has a glitch.

All that said, I donít think the backlinks they are showing are correct yet. Oh yeah, that site had a PR3 before the PR update and is still showing a PR3 unlike two of my other sites going to a PR0.

8:30 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Although we lost TBPR we apparently havent lost any rankings for keywords at least not on the centers I've had the time to look at.

However I am seeing ALOT of spammy sites ranking within the first 3 pages of results on many terms. Lots of mysimon,bizrate,nextag,ebay and yah shopping pages showing up which is terrible for results .. guess I'll be doing my personal searches somewhere else if I want quality results.

I do see that there are maybe 10% less google referrals over the last week, but honestly any slowdown in business for us is a little expected as everyone is just now getting their credit card bills from christmas and are probably in shock.

On our pr flux. Could it be possible that sites that are seeing a 0 could be experiencing this because a change for them is coming and before they roll out new results they simply reset the TBPR temporarily for those sites?

[edited by: Bewenched at 8:32 pm (utc) on Jan. 11, 2007]

8:34 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



One of our sites just went from PR6 (been there for months) to PR0.

We were at #3 for SERP "search ebay" (only behind eBay itself) and now we're not in the top 100.

8:44 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Our PR is slowly starting to re-propogate across our site. Like I said earlier, I watched with cautious optimism...
9:15 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I am kind of curious about something though. One of my sites has a PR5 on its non-www url, and a PR4 on the www version. I have it set in WMT to show everything on the www, so I'm not even sure why the non-www would be still be in the index. Or maybe I'm not understanding how it's sposed to work. I don't mind giving up the PR5 for the 4, I'm just wondering how it happened that way, and why it's still there. If I do a site: command on the non-www, I get more pages, but all of 'em except for the home page have a www in front of them.
10:13 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

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I see improvements in the TBPR update.
It seems like google is updating TBPR on a page by page basis!
10:21 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



PR recovered from ZERO HELL last night. Makes me relieved even if PR didn't go up. On a couple of DC's PR seems to be a rollback to six months ago.
10:44 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Could it be possible that sites that are seeing a 0 could be experiencing this because a change for them is coming and before they roll out new results they simply reset the TBPR temporarily for those sites?

Very possible, it could also be that the pr0 phenomenon was strictly on one or a few DC's that we seen before being recalculated.

Netmeg, make sure that the url you want shows a 200 ok in the a hader check, and that the other is redirected using 301 to the preferred domain, then check that the response is 301 to the preferred domain.

10:46 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



It would seem likely they will rollback to six months ago for awhile, as they have shown they can't do an update anymore.

On the other hand, the "google never makes mistakes" folks I'm sure are preparing their posts on why 20% of the Internet just went PR0.

10:55 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



> PR is updated all the time
> Real PR is updated constantly, as are the SERPS.

To my knowledge, this is nonsense: Calculation of Pagerank, as described on various recources all over he internet, requires an enormous amount of computer-cpu-time and cannot be performed while Adam Lasnik is having a cup of coffee. This is the reason why we talk about "updates", i.e. periods when new values for TBPR, silently calculated in the background days or weeks before, are rolled out to the datacenters.

If you recently have come across some newer research papers or patents describing how pagerank can be calculated or estimated without looping through this enormous matrix of backlinks, please let me know the source.

11:30 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



No really. Page Rank is continuously updated. Whether you believe Matt Cutts or not is up to you.

[mattcutts.com...]

11:50 pm on Jan 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Oliver, isn't the computer-cpu-time issue dealt with by using many different datacenters?
12:11 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Oliver - I think 'Local rank' or 'hilltop' would take the basic pr calculation and produce a serp with all the other factors. Then modify it according to the link pattern within the serps. Thus pr is being modified on the fly, but because the serps has already reduced the number of sites involved, it takes little cpu time.
12:20 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

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Ours is up. Woo-hoo!
12:52 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

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My sites pagerank is now back from 0. This took about 24 hours.
2:11 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member vincevincevince is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Same here - two sites which had done the PRx -> PR0 trick without losing rank have now got it back.
2:13 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Could it be possible that sites that are seeing a 0 could be experiencing this because a change for them is coming and before they roll out new results they simply reset the TBPR temporarily for those sites?

I thought of this too. A crazy thought crossed my mind that maybe, somehow, possibly these sites were getting special attention from Goog, because many of them were long, established, authority sites.

Off topic >>
Heck... maybe for these sites, they will start to show pink pixels instead of green to indicate they've got super TrustRank! ;)

4:19 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Ours is back from 0 as well.
4:49 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Hi to All,

I need your valuable remarks over the latest Google update which held on 10th January 2007. It was PR/BL update and still in progress. I observed that this time Google totally discounted the reciprocal links. I had website with PR 5 and i was running reciprocal link building campaign, but now it has PR 4. Another one on which I was running Inbound link building campaign, PR before Google Update was 3 now it has PR 4 with internal pages has PR 2. It makes me happy.

Please check out with your sites and tell us about your feedbacks.

Thanks,
SandySEO

5:24 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I agree that something has changed in the way backlinks are weighted, but I think it's an overstatement to say that reciprocal links are "totally discounted". Probably more accurate to say they have a lot less weight now.

However, a scoring change like that would not be part of a PR Update -- which is more accurately described as a PR export. The new PR numbers we are now seeing have already been in use to score the SERPs. It' just that we only now get to see the numbers -- which are already just a "historical snapshot."

Here's a post from GoogleGuy back in 2005, where he mentions both the continuous calculation of PR and the once-in-a-while update of the toolbar values.

June 2, 2005

...we typically show new backlink sample sets every 3-5 weeks or so. We have a bank of machines that computes PageRank continuously (and continually, I suppose; I wasn't an English major), but we only export new visible PageRanks every 3-4 months or so.

[webmasterworld.com...]

For a discussion of changes to the way Google is ranking urls, visit January 2007 Google Changes [webmasterworld.com].

Let's keep this thread focused on the newly visible PR values that Google is trying to export to the toolbar.

5:43 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Whatever it was Goog was trying to do, it seems that they have backtracked. My PR's back to normal (PR4) with the exception of 2 DC's that show PR2. Hope everyone that was zeroed has recovered.

PS. backlinks seem to have been reduced though.

9:59 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I see this too.

Tool bar 6-0-6, 1/4 increase in backlinks on "link:", now all's back on an even keel.

First the listed backlinks updated and the displayed toolbar PR went to 0, SERPs/traffic remained steady, now toolbar PR has come back into line.

10:43 am on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Matt Cutts just commented on his blog about the PR0 people had been seeing (in post titled "Infrastructure status, January 2007"):

Update: A few people were seeing PageRank 0 for their site. There was a small auxiliary push that needed to happen to complement the PageRank push, and that push happened a few hours ago (i.e. Jan 11, 2007). If you were getting stressed, you might want to re-check now. If you never even noticed, well, good for you.
1:11 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Google has dumped on 1 site 2/3 of traffic and then it went from 5 to 6. At best I would say this is inconsistent... What's the message here?

The other PR6 site is having WILD 300% fluctuations, probably as always ending in some form of traffic disaster.

Google is toying with us.

Edit:
Now it went back to PR5 within 10 minutes after being on 6 since yesterday.

2:25 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



We had PR3 as of two weeks ago, dropped to PR2, then jumped to PR4 last night. We are now showing PR2. We have had no loss of traffic, so I am not going to lose sleep over it.
3:26 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I just got to looking at the backlinks that google has given me after the pr update. As I type this I have a story that is number three on digg. And have been front page on each: reddit, digg, netscape multiple times the last three months.

What I am noticing is that digg, reddit, and netscape backlinks are not being tallied in the backlink. Is anyone else noticing the same thing?

4:43 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



One of my sites has a PR5 on its non-www url, and a PR4 on the www version. I have it set in WMT to show everything on the www, so I'm not even sure why the non-www would be still be in the index.

I have the exact same problem:
www.domain.com and domain.com with different PR

Site:www.domain.com Does not show my home page

Site:domain.com Shows my home page but others listed as www.domain.com in front of each page

My site is no longer rank for main domain keyword because the PR for non-www is lower than www version.

I also changed it on Google WMT to display with www option, but no changes so far.

Anyone else with exact same situation?

9:49 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



So is the PR update over? I didn't see any changes on any of my sites on any datacenter checker.
11:20 pm on Jan 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



We have a bank of machines that computes PageRank continuously (and continually, I suppose; I wasn't an English major), but we only export new visible PageRanks every 3-4 months or so.

I always understood this in such a way, that of course a set of machines is "continuously" running hot, calculating Pagerank, but that the calculation algo itself takes several days, weeks or perhaps even the mentioned 3-4 months to run through. And that it is always a 'dangerous' adventure to export the stuff to the databases serving the actual search-requests. Not to mention questions of error-probability on hardware level, which can have a huge effect in such a an iterative system.

Oliver - I think 'Local rank' or 'hilltop' would take the basic pr calculation and produce a serp with all the other factors. Then modify it according to the link pattern within the serps. Thus pr is being modified on the fly, but because the serps has already reduced the number of sites involved, it takes little cpu time.

thx for the info. Do you have any links to some more technical papers at hand? To my understanding, no matter what you do to the data material in a first step, the core of the pagerank algo is a calculation of approximately 100 loops over a (thin) matrix of the size of the square of the number of websites indexed. I never understood whether and how this process can be accelerated by building local, thematic or structural clusters. I'm always willing to learn and I must admit I wasn't really up to date when the concepts of 'local rank' and 'hilltop' were discussed.

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